Join Ian R Buck and Tim Marino for a discussion of the Purple Line: the history of the project, recent developments, and the Purple People Coalition fighting to make sure it will serve the most people it can the best it can.
Links
- Purple People page on Move Minnesota Website
- Get Outta The Gully
- Tim’s article Debunking Maplewood’s Arguments Against the Purple Line
Attributions
Our theme song is Tanz den Dobberstein, and our interstitial song is Puck’s Blues. Both tracks used by permission of their creator, Erik Brandt. Find out more about his band, The Urban Hillbilly Quartet, on their website.
This episode was edited by Jeremy Winter, was hosted and transcribed by Ian R Buck, and features guest Tim Marino. We’re always looking to feature new voices on the show, so if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [email protected].
Transcript
[00:00:00] Ian: Welcome to the Streets.mn Podcast, the show where we highlight how transportation and land use can make our communities better places. Coming to you from beautiful Seward, Minneapolis, Minnesota. I’m your host Ian r Buck. Today we’re going back to my childhood neighborhood up on the east side of St. Paul to talk about the Purple Line Bus Rapid Transit Project. This is a companion piece to Tim Marino’s article that appeared on streets.mn last week, link to that in the show notes, and he’s joining me here in the studio to help us go over the history of the project, highlighting the Purple People Coalition who are fighting for the project and discussing recent developments.
Let’s jump in. It is been an emotional rollercoaster, honestly.
[00:00:50] Tim: It’s a good way to put it. Yeah.
[00:00:52] Ian: Um, and yeah. Tim, can you, can you tell everybody, like briefly your relationship with Transit and in particular, I’m thinking about, you know, your, your schooling currently, right?
[00:01:05] Tim: Yeah. So, uh, well first my name is Tim Marino.
I am a organizer with the Dayton’s Bluff Community Council and member of the Purple People, the Coalition on the East side, we’ll talk about more in a minute. But as far as my relationship to transit, um, I’m just somebody who grew up taking the bus a lot. It’s either I’m biking or I’m busing. You know, just as I’ve kind of like grown up more, you realize that like there’s not really a lot of voices that speak up for transit users.
I mean, there are some great ones. We have some great organizations in the Twin Cities, but, um,
[00:01:35] Ian: And a lot of those organizations are involved in the Purple People
[00:01:37] Tim: Coalition.
They are. Yeah, they are. And I, I definitely like, you know, really appreciate
them for doing it.
[00:01:43] Ian: Are you trying to go to school right now for transportation planning related stuff?
[00:01:48] Tim: That is the goal. Um, we’re working on it right now. Mm-Hmm. I’m hoping to get into the U um, sometime soon. And I would love to work for, uh, some kind of like Metro Transit or a group like that that’s actually, you know, doing the work on, on this stuff. Um, but for right now, I’m just a passionate observer.
[00:02:08] Ian: Yeah. And, um. Longtime listeners will remember, I, I think this was the last time that you were on the show, was our episode about moving. From one part of the Twin Cities to the other because I had moved from gradually from the east side to Seward, Minneapolis. And you moved from Brooklyn Park? Brooklyn Center.
Brooklyn Center, yeah. Brooklyn Center over to the east side of St. Paul. And that’s when I got you connected with the Purple People Coalition. ’cause I was like, I at Tim, these are your, your new neighbors. They’re working on this great thing. It seems like it’s right up your alley.
[00:02:42] Tim: Yeah. And it’s, it’s been really great to get connected with a lot of the community leaders over there and to, you know, learn more about, you know, what it means to be in community on a project.
Mm-Hmm. I think it’s, you know, it can be easy to be like, well, I have this idea and I really wanna talk about this idea. And like, you know, sometimes it’s valid and sometimes you have to recognize that, you know, your voice is one voice. Your experience is not something that’s, you know, experienced by everyone in the community.
Right. And it’s, it. Been a ton of lessons that I’ve learned through this, and it’s been really, it’s been really exciting to see these voices come together and, you know, the coalition continue to be, continue to get stronger and stuff. Even with the challenges that have come along with this project, um, I’m still excited for, you know, the, the relationships that I see strong forming in our community and, you know, uh, hopefully we can, uh, get a good bus project out of this.
[00:03:35] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful sentiments all around. All right, so let’s get into the history of the Purple Line Project. Um, very briefly, I mean, allegedly this, this, uh, project has existed since floppy discs were popular.
[00:03:54] Tim: Allegedly.
[00:03:54] Ian: Allegedly. Uh, and so, so originally it was called the Rush Line Project that was like its code name.
Um. That was when it was a Ramsey County led project. Right. And this is how a lot of like flagship transit projects happen here in the Twin Cities, right. Is like one of the counties will develop the idea for this thing. It has a code name until they then hand it over to Metro Transit and that’s when it gets its final name.
You know, that we as the public recognize, um. You know, so like, I, I think the Green Line right, was the Central Corridor project, you know, put forth by Ramsey County and probably Hennepin County jointly. I wasn’t around during that time, so I’m not sure what all the details are, you know, but I believe the, the Green Line extension, the Blue Line extension, those both were Hennepin County led, you know, before they handed it off to Metro Transit.
If you want to. Debate whether or not this is a good way to develop transit projects in the Twin Cities. Uh, listeners, I would suggest you go and chat with Ian Gaida. He’s got a lot of opinions about this, um, and he’s, he’s alluded to that in a couple of Streets.mn pieces that he’s written. So, uh, maybe we should have him on the show to, to talk about that in a bit more detail.
[00:05:18] Tim: Yeah, that’d be a good idea. But yeah, the Rush Line, um, it started, believe it or not, as a commuter rail line all the way up to Rush City.
[00:05:26] Ian: Mm-Hmm. Um, and where is Rush City folks may
[00:05:29] Tim: ask.
A long way away.
[00:05:31] Ian: Yeah. I’d like say, I say that it’s, uh, it’s two thirds of the way to Hinkley.
[00:05:35] Tim: Yep. Yep. Uh, so you keep going up on, uh, 35 or around 61 Mm-Hmm.
And, uh, you’ll get there eventually. Yeah. But, um, yeah, so that, that’s kind of how it started. I mean, a few of our projects have started like that. Like I know the Gold Line right now originally was first kind of thought about as maybe this will be a commuter rail line to Eau Claire. Mm-Hmm. And then it ends up shrinking down as like, you know, we start with this really.
Blank sheet of something where they call the universe of alternatives. Mm. And so you could look at it and be like, well, maybe there’ll be light rail here. Maybe there’ll be a bus here. Maybe there’ll be a commuter rail. Like, and then as. Things develop, we start to realize that, you know, I mean, it’d be cool to have something going up to Rush City, but I mean, I don’t think it would get as good ridership.
I don’t think it would, you know, really serve as many people like in the community of St. Paul, um, as much. Right. And so, you know, through the 28 years that it has been developed and stuff, uh, they’ve started to make changes.
[00:06:33] Ian: Yeah. Various different levels of community engagement throughout that whole process, right?
Mm-Hmm. Different, different, um, I imagine different city councils and, you know, they send representatives to the table to, to talk with the county folks and everything and, you know, figure out what, what do we want this to look like? When I kind of became aware of the project, uh, it had been developed to the point where they, they were envisioning it as a bus rapid transit line from downtown St. Paul to downtown. Uh, White Bear Lake, um, along, mostly along the Bruce Vento trail corridor, which notably, you know, is an old rail corridor that Ramsey County bought from whichever private company owned it at the time, and they bought it with the express intent to use it as a transit corridor. Right? And so that, that has been kind of a, a through line throughout this whole project is the county has felt like in order to keep their promises when they bought the, the land that like, oh, we really should be putting transit here on this corridor. A lot of folks who live along Bruce Vento trail, when they became aware of the project, were like, wait, what’s gonna happen to the trail?
Right? Like that is. A scary change, you know, for somebody who loves using the trail on a day-to-day basis. And so that was kind of one of the early angles of anti Rush Line sentiment, I think was stemmed from not wanting to have a, a transit line interfering with like this beautiful trail that we have on the east side.
Honestly, I like, I love the, the Bruce Vno trail. Um, it was part of my daily commute for quite a while when I worked at Harding High School, the Bruce Vento Trail. When it’s on, its like straight part that goes mostly north, south, uh, through the greater east side like it is up on a berm and it’s like right behind everybody.
Like everybody’s backyard’s kind of like butt up right against it. And so I think people didn’t want to have, you know, buses going through there, which are louder than bikes.
[00:08:43] Tim: Yeah. And like you can, I can definitely understand that too. ’cause it’s like, you know. As someone who lived in the city all their life, like I still appreciate nature.
I still appreciate kind of getting out of the city in the sense and being like, oh, okay, this is a peaceful place to exist in. I mean, I think most city dwellers will have, can relate to those moments there. And you know, feeling like something that you’ve enjoyed for a long time and maybe you’ve taken walks on there with your kids or you’ve biked at, you know, a lot of times, and it’s one of honestly, like for a long time, it’s one of the few safe bike places that you can take a family on.
Mm-Hmm.
And so I can see-
[00:09:18] Ian: it feels like it’s part of a network too, because it, like, it intersects with the Gateway State Trail, you know, and both of them go to very different places. So like, it gives, it, it expands bicycle and walking access a lot in, up on the east side of St. Paul.
[00:09:34] Tim: Yeah. Like even some, as somebody who grew up in South Minneapolis, like the Gateway Trail used to be like my favorite trail. Mm-Hmm. Um. You know, up, up there with the Greenway. Um, but like, maybe I, I rated it up a little higher because I didn’t go on it as much, whereas the Greenway I went on all the time.
Sure, sure, sure. So it’s like, ooh, it’s a little special. Yeah. But it was definitely one of my favorite trails. Um, and you know, when it’s right there with Bruce Vento and you can just, like, it just feels like, so like. Just right away from the city. And it’s just like, oh, it’s, it’s here. Like I have a friend who lives just north of Maryland on Payne, did not even know the Gateway Trail existed.
Huh? Did not know the Bruce Vento trail existed. And it’s like right there. And they’re like, this is by my house? Yeah. Like what? Like, and so like. There’s value in those spaces.
Mm-Hmm.
You know, but I can also understand the county’s argument too, where it’s like, I mean, if we didn’t spend the money on transit for this, there wouldn’t have been a Bruce Vento trail.
Right. It still would’ve just been an abandoned railroad that, you know, nobody would’ve enjoyed. And so it’s, it’s a really tough balance and, you know, I don’t. I, I, I can see how there’s, you know –
[00:10:37] Ian: it’s the danger of giving people something nice because then they want to keep this nice thing, oddly enough.
[00:10:43] Tim: Why we don’t give people nice things.
No, no. But like, it’s, it’s a tough balance right there about like, you know, what, what about future priorities? And I think like. When I first heard about the project being moved off Bruce Vento , I was a little disappointed. ’cause like, I mean, yeah, I like the trail, but I’m like, oh, this is gonna be another derailed project.
And mm-Hmm. I think there’s, there’s sometimes a little bit of, like, when people follow these transit projects, there’s always gonna be hiccups. There’s always gonna be times where things move, things change, and then like, there’s no –
[00:11:13] Ian: there’s moving and changing and we just need to make sure that it, it doesn’t become like a death by a thousand cuts, right?
[00:11:19] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. And then like as I’m, you know. As I’m getting more familiar with the East side, as I’m living there, as I’m experiencing this, I’m just like, yeah, this is the right decision.
[00:11:31] Ian: Mm-Hmm.
[00:11:32] Tim: White Bear Avenue. It, it makes sense. It, it just makes so much sense.
[00:11:36] Ian: Okay. So let’s talk about that. Okay. Um, so before, before we get to the White Bear Avenue stuff, the city of White Bear Lake, there was an election, couple of city council seats changed.
I think it might’ve been even been just one. Um, and the majority of the city council. Was against the, uh, the, the Rush Line at that time. The City of White Bear Lake passed a resolution opposing the project. And from my perspective, you know, and, and I think from the perspective of the, the city council members who passed that resolution, everybody thought that that was just kind of a, like, we’re making a statement.
It doesn’t actually, it’s not gonna affect anything. Right. The project’s still probably gonna go through anyway. But surprisingly, the Purple Line project staff like, took that into account and started making plans that didn’t involve going up into Downtown White Bear Lakes. So we started seeing, um, different possibilities presented by staff about, you know, oh, where could the endpoint be?
Is it going to be, would it be at, uh, Maplewood Mall? Would it go to Century College? There was another, uh, some shopping center in like Vadnais Heights, I think, uh mm-Hmm. That I’ve never been to and I had never heard of before of this project. Um, and, and yeah, that, like, that put a lot of people back on their heels about like, wait, what’s going on with the project right now?
Yeah. Right. It felt like it was, it, it, it radically shifted what the purpose of the project was gonna be, right? Yeah. Um, and that’s around the time that the, the Purple People Coalition. Got put together. So, um, I’ve been on the Community and Business Advisory Committee for the project for quite a while.
’cause I worked at Harding High School at the time I lived on, up on the East Side for most of my life. Um, you know, my parents are still up there, so I have a lot of connections there. There were several other members of the CBAC who. Or feeling like, wait, it feels like the, the project is in danger of really going off the rails, if I can use that, uh, phrasing.
So, so we, uh, started chatting and, and formed this coalition to advocate, you know, outside of the official Community and Business Advisory Committee and the Corridor Management Committee and whatever other committees. Right. You know, the, the project staff put together. Um, you know, we formed this coalition to start pushing for making sure that this, this project is going to be the best project it can be for the most people that it can be. And so here we are about to talk about what are all the stuff that the, that the Purple People Coalition has been up to.
[00:14:15] Tim: Yeah. So I wanted to touch a little bit on how it got taken outta White Bear Lake in the first place.
Now, I wasn’t a part of the community discussions or the CBAC at that time. Um, but you know, I’ve had discussions with people who were a part of it. I know. Um. We have members in our coalition who are very connected with nonprofits in the area and the community coalitions, and had a lot of community voices who were like, we need to bring this to White Bear Lake.
It started as a streetcar town. That’s the only reason White Bear Lake exists on there. That was the origin of it there, and, you know, and, uh, the, the talks came to bring it back. It really was. It stoked up a lot of people who use that as a fear campaign. Um, yeah. There was one of the members of the White Bear Lake City Council got elected, um, was on from the Center of American Experiment and.
As a very, if you don’t know, a very, very conservative think tank. Mm-Hmm.
Um,
and they put a lot of pressure on it, talking about, this is gonna bring crime up here. This is gonna make our traffic worse because you’re gonna have. A bus coming every 10 minutes is gonna make traffic worse. Like, you know, it’s gonna change the character of our neighborhood.
It’s, this isn’t why we moved to White Bear Lake. And you know, I mean, yes, things are a change, but also like I. Places like that, they need access from the city. They need people to come shop at their businesses. Mm-Hmm. They need people who want to live there to, you know, encourage more development there to build their property tax base.
Like they, we, I think a lot of times, suburbs, they feel like, okay, we’re our own thing from there, but they’re part of the organism of the city. And it re regardless of the, of any other reasons. For me, it just, it. I, I don’t like seeing when suburbs just try to like, disconnect from what’s what the city is.
Right. And be like, we’re better than you. We’re over here. It, it always strikes me the wrong way. And especially when a lot of that comes from racism and classism. Yeah. Purely.
[00:16:13] Ian: Yeah. And so that whenever I see that kind of thing popping up in suburbs, I want to like, I want to give them the deal. Like, okay, you can reject this rapid transit project.
But in exchange, we’re gonna take away your highway. You know, like, I feel like that has to be the, the, the deal right. Is like you, you can’t, you can’t go anywhere fast. Yeah. If you can’t go there fast in a bus.
[00:16:42] Tim: Yeah. No, for real. Um, but it’s, it’s a different mode for them. And it’s like, oh, well that’s, that’s radical.
Mm-Hmm. Why would you, why would you do that? You know? And so. Coming from there and just like seeing the Met Council say, okay, we don’t wanna fight that fight, we just wanna stop it at Maplewood, because unlike with other projects, like they don’t have to listen to, there’s no municipal consent for a BRT project.
The Met Council could say, great resolution, we’re gonna keep doing what we’re gonna do.
[00:17:10] Ian: Right. Though there was some complications with like land acquisition that would’ve had to happen in. Within White Bear Lake. Mm-Hmm. In order for the BRT to be able to function. And so like the, the city council did have some leverage there.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:29] Tim: And I’m sure it would’ve drawn off into a whole lot of court cases and. A whole bunch of lawyers who are way more informed on this can probably speak on this. You know, like I said, I am just a layman in these things. Yeah. Um, but yeah, like, and then as, like you said, as, as those things happen and this coalition has turned to form, I think that that’s what I’ve really like to see in this project.
Because I, like, I know there are groups that support transit projects, but they’re like, this feels really deeply rooted.
[00:18:01] Ian: Mm-Hmm.
[00:18:03] Tim: And how, like who is showing up to the table? Um, we have one of the, the East Side Business Association, ESABA is showing up there. Mm-Hmm. We have all four east side St. Paul district councils.
Mm-Hmm. Showing up in support about this. Yeah. We have. So
[00:18:19] Ian: that’d be Payne-Phalen. Uh, Dayton’s Bluff, Greater East Side and…?
[00:18:24] Tim: SECO, Southeast Community Organization. And of course, Move Minnesota. Move Minnesota. Yeah. Um, and MICA, which is an affordable. The Metropolitan Interfaith Council on Affordable Housing and like you don’t really see that in a lot of other projects and like to see a, a coalition like that that’s existing outside of the power structure of the Met Council and the Metro and Metro Transit in the county.
And I think there’s value in that in just saying that we’ve seen. Like a whole lot of other groups, organizing and advocating for their own interests and advocating against transit. And we want to do the same thing. We want to be a voice where people can support this, where we can make sure it’s the best project that serves all of our communities, that it can bring these district councils to the table.
Mm-Hmm. It can. Make requests from the Met Council and the project staff and say, we have certain things that we want to see this be better. We want to be your cheerleaders. We want to be the people saying, yes, we want the Purple Line. But we’re not just gonna sit back and take any project that is given.
[00:19:30] Ian: Right, right.
[00:19:31] Tim: You know, already I’m a fan of the purple line before it, but like now I’m just like, you know, you see these communities that are just being like, yes, we want it. How many places, how many neighborhood organizations, how many business associations in the city are like, yes, we want the project.
Right. We, there’s a lot of other ones where it’s concern because, and it’s not because they necessarily just hate transit. Well, sometimes it might be, but. It’s because there’s not a space for them to communicate. It’s not a space where they can understand these things. Right. By having these communities and these groups involved from a beginning point and coming to the project staff with a position of power, it, it really levels the playing fields and it makes people feel there’s more trust.
There’s more buy-in.
Mm-Hmm.
There’s still things we need to work on. There’s still things that we need to advocate for and there’s still things that we want to improve about it, but. I know that, like for me, following a lot of different projects, that’s an encouraging sign to see.
[00:20:28] Ian: Yeah, yeah. So the, the project going from, uh, ending in White Bear Lake to, you know, now Maplewood Mall is the likely terminus.
Right. Um, that was kind of when, when my sense for, for what would be best for the project really shifted. Right. When like. The Bruce Vento trail route made a lot of sense to me when this route went a long ways right? But Maplewood Mall is very close to the downtown, you know, downtown St. Paul. Uh, and so at that point, you know, we started to think about, wait a minute, is Bruce Vento Trail really the best place for this bus to go? And that’s, uh, you know, really the Purple People Coalition was the entity that got White Bear Avenue put back on the table right as an option, um, long time ago when multiple different routes were being studied. Right. White Bear Avenue and Bruce Vento Trail were both studied and they discounted White Bear Avenue.
Um, I think at the time, the formulas that like the federal. Uh, you know, level uses to determine whether or not they’re going to contribute money to a project. We very different. You know, if, if the Purple Line had been moving along quicker than the Gold Line, we probably would’ve seen a very different project, like the Gold Line ended up being a project that has a lot of park and rides.
You know, as part of the project, because that was like the direction that federal money was advocating for, right? You had to have that kind of thing in your formulas in order to qualify for stuff. Um, and now under the Biden administration, very different story, right? We got project staff to start studying again, the White Bear Avenue alignment, the route, um, with the thought that, okay, that is a business corridor.
There’s a lot more, it’s a much higher density of housing and also of businesses and that seems a lot more appropriate for a rapid, a bus rapid transit route that isn’t going far out of the cities. Um. It makes a lot more sense. It, it, it seems a lot more similar to other transit projects that we have had in the core of the Twin Cities.
Like, you know, like the Green Line, uh, Central Corridor.
[00:23:06] Tim: Yeah. And I think like the wisdom of that is coming even more true. You know, after Covid, I mean, we don’t have the same amount of people that are commuting into downtown, like
[00:23:15] Ian: Right.
[00:23:15] Tim: And. That does change, you know, the type of ridership you’re gonna get in a project.
Like when people are commuting into downtown, they’re not as often really wanting to see what’s on the way there. Like they’re trying to go downtown, they’re trying to go home, um, and. Versus like, where, where are the places that you can connect to in your neighborhood? Like where are the destinations along the way?
Where are the apartment buildings that people live at? Where are the bus lines that connect to this route and can feed into this and make it a whole network? And I, I think that like an element of that where I, I like it too, is like. Being able to chain trips together. Mm-Hmm. So like, let’s say that I am coming back from Minneapolis on the Green Line going towards St. Paul and I’m heading over there and I’m like, oh, I need to stop and get something. Okay, well let me just hit Menards real quick on the way back. Pick up something and then I’ll get on the next, next train that’s coming. ’cause it’s coming in. Used to be 10 minutes now. 12 minutes? Yeah. Yeah. Um. And then, oh, let me grab some food on the way back too.
So I’m gonna stop at Dale and pick up something from Hooks or, or the right, not hooks. I forgot Los Ocampo over there. Mm-Hmm. Oh, I might just go by the, the park on the way back and just chill for a little bit. Like you can take these trips and make these stops along the way in an easier way where like when you’re in a car too, like it’s easy.
’cause you can just be like, oh, I can park and I can go in there and. We don’t think about that always in the same way with like, for people who don’t take transit about that opportunity to just like stop, grab something, come back on and go, right. It’s all about origin and destination.
[00:24:50] Ian: And you need two things for that to work, right?
You need high frequency. Mm-Hmm. And also you need a density of businesses, restaurants, parks, like things along the way, right? Yeah. So that’s, that’s one of the reasons that. I kind of started getting excited again when we started talking about White Bear Avenue, um, was because it, it provides such a different opportunity, uh, for this project.
Um, and I think it is, it is worth highlighting, right? That Purple Line, it’s a color, right? It’s not one of the BRT lines with a letter name, right? The arterial BRT lines, so that’s the A line C line, D line coming soon is the B line. Right. Those are all bus rapid transit lines that typically don’t have their own right of way.
Right. They’re, they’re, they’re operating mostly just on streets the way that your traditional city buses do. But they have a few other like treatments to get them to go faster. Right. They have stops that are spaced out farther than most city buses. Um, they have the really nice stations with like the, you know, uh, paying before you board so that you don’t have to spend time like at the fare box when like Right.
You know, you don’t have a long line of people waiting to get onto the bus, stuff like that. Right. But the Purple Line project has not, it’s not been diluted down to that level. Right. We are still intending for this to be a, a bus route that operates primarily in its own right of way. So how’s that gonna work on White Bear Avenue?
There’s a few different possibilities, right? This is probably, this is mostly gonna mean just like bus lanes along the, along the whole route, right? Um, there’s a couple of different ways that that could look. It could be, uh, bus lanes on the outsides of the street right next to the, to the sidewalk, right?
That’s, uh, an arrangement that we see. Pretty typically for bus route or for bus lanes in the Twin Cities. Um, I’m excited about, you know, the studying of center running, uh, bus lanes. I’ve gotten to ride some center running, uh, bus rapid transit routes in like Indiana, Indianapolis, right? They’ve got the Red Line.
Uh, and I was really amazed at how, how narrow of a street they could fit bus lanes on. When they used the center running model, that seemed, that was like really cool to me. And the other reason that I am like really intrigued by center running is because it, it, it seems like it would have more opportunities similar to what the Green Line did for University, which is making it a much easier street to cross for pedestrians.
Right. Yeah. When I’m crossing University today, you know, I. Just look for, oh, where are the entrances to the light rail platforms? And then that means that I only have to cross the traffic that’s going in one direction at a time because I have that platform in the middle as my like pedestrian refuge, right?
I. So I think that center running would be a really cool feature, uh, for the Purple Line to have on White Bear Avenue.
[00:28:02] Tim: Yeah, and that’s one that I’m personally really excited for. Um, me and a few other members on the Purple People Coalition, um, approached the project staff about saying like, Hey, you guys ruled this one out pretty quickly.
Why, like, do we really need to do that? And, um, there were a few assumptions that were made originally when it was ruled out. Um, but we had, we’ve had discussions with them about saying, Hey, do we really have to have these assumptions going forward going into this project? Is there any way that we can really.
I mean, squeeze it in there in, in a better way. Because the other thing that that’s really key about, like the D line, B line, stuff like that versus a Purple Line, is that it gets the federal money to reconstruct the street.
Mmmm-Hmm. Like, yes, the B line is having construction on Lake Street, but that isn’t the federal money doing that.
Like they’re building, like the stations are being built, you know, with project money, but. All the other improvements. That’s the city and the county that are working on this. And so being able to have the opportunity to reconstruct one of the most dangerous roads in the county, that’s huge. Right? For people that are in, you know, urbanism space, you might have heard the term four lane death road that is White Bear Avenue to a t.
Um, I think we, uh. One of the members of our community, they found some information. I think, correct me if I’m wrong, if they’re listening, but I think the average speed of traffic on White Bear Avenue, if I remember right, was 47 miles an hour and the speed limit is 30.
[00:29:33] Ian: Yeah.
[00:29:34] Tim: Yeah. And that’s average. So are we talking about people who are gonna be going 55?
This is an area where there is density near there. There’s businesses, there’s a library that kids just hang out by. There’s uh, a senior living center that’s right near it. That’s a high rise. We have community that are living here, and this is a canyon in between, from where you want to go from one side.
And so, like you said, the the, the thing that I personally really like about center running is that it doesn’t feel just tacked on. In a way, like when, when there’s side running bus lanes.
[00:30:07] Ian: Literally a central feature of the road.
[00:30:09] Tim: Right? Yeah. Those side running bus lanes, they have right turns that use those and when there’s a spot where there’s like cars are doing right turns, it’s pretty easy for somebody who’s in a hurry to justify, oh, well my turn’s in three blocks, so I might as well get over now and just, you know, make my way over there or something.
If there’s something on the side of the road. If you have a delivery that’s in front of the house. The delivery driver is just gonna be like they do in a lot of bike lanes in the city. Oh, I’m just gonna stop here for just a moment. They won’t care. I’m gonna run inside. And that all affects reliability.
And for me, as a transit rider, one of the most important things for, you know, besides frequency for me is that reliability. Mm-Hmm. Because if I’m worried about. Catching my next transfer. Yes, the Purple Line might come every 10 minutes, but what if I’m transferring to a bus that only comes every hour, right?
And if I’m nervous, if I can’t make that connection, now I have to leave an hour earlier and that’s lost time. So if I get to my destination hour earlier, like, okay, like if I have to do that every morning or every day for work, that’s a ton of time that you’re really not able to provide into any other thing you wanna do in life.
So with something like center running. Because it’s, it’s in the middle there. Another thing too is that yes, you have to cross the street a little bit to get to the station every time, but it’s that shorter crossing distance, right? So you just have to cross that one car lane, one bus lane, you know, both times versus crossing all four lanes at once.
[00:31:40] Ian: And, and the key, the key for me is like, I only have to look in one direction. To see the traffic that’s coming towards me. Yeah.
[00:31:48] Tim: Right. Yeah. And it’s something that’s still, you know, it’s still to be determined. You know, there’s, right, there are community voices on both sides of this, this, this issue. But I, I do have to say I’m glad that it got considered.
I’m glad that is actually being studied, that the information is being released to the public so that the community feedback can really influence this decision right there.
[00:32:07] Ian: Mm-Hmm. And, and I’m really glad that we have you. On the coalition right now as well, because you have been bringing your experience as somebody who is studying to become a transportation, you know, planner that you’ve been able to reach out to folks that you know and be like, Hey, let’s get some, like concept drawings, you know, some, some, uh, diagrams of the plot maps and whatnot.
You know, like put together and demonstrate for, for. The project staff, like, here’s a possibility.
[00:32:38] Tim: Yeah. I have a, a friend of mine, um, who threw together a rendering of like what it could look like. ’cause that’s what he does in his job. He is a planner who makes renderings for things. And he heard about the idea of this and was like, oh, this is super cool.
Let me just throw this together. And so there’s an added level of like. Okay. This isn’t just some out there idea. It’s, it’s visual. You can see it now. Mm-Hmm. And it’s tangible. And then even like having discussions with like, uh, people from IndyGo, like I reached out to, right. Uh, someone from the, who was working on that project and was like, okay, so how did that go?
How, what is your, what was your experience like running that? Like what were the challenges with it? Um. And then just hearing those stories from the people who would actually have to deal with the implementation of this on a daily basis. You know, it’s, it’s valuable there. And, you know, they’re hearing the direct feedback, they’re hearing what the community thinks of something that’s already built.
’cause you know, it, it can all sound great in a PowerPoint presentation right? In a picture, but it really matters about what’s people’s on the ground experience of these things. Mm-Hmm. And so that, that was something that for me was really cool to be a part of with that. Um.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:33:49] Ian: Uh, another, another major thing that’s being figured out right now is the Arcade station.
Yes. So, Arcade Street is, uh, is in fact a US Highway. Correct. That’s, I think that’s US Highway 61.
[00:34:03] Tim: US Highway 61.
[00:34:05] Ian: Yeah. The Bruce Vento Trail at that point. It goes alongside Phalen Boulevard, you know, it goes underneath, it travels underneath, uh, Arcade. And, um, the concepts for like, what the station was going to look like have evolved greatly over time.
Uh, and have had, I, I would say probably the most community scrutiny out of any of the stations. So, um, you know, initially there were a few different. Uh, ideas about, you know, okay, if, if we want the bus to be able to just, uh, travel straight through without having any, like detours or anything, we’ll have a station down next to Bruce Vento trail and uh, and then there’ll be like an elevator and a stairway that goes up to the bridge, right?
So that would feel pretty similar probably to the, uh, West Bank Station for the Green Line right here in Minneapolis. Um, which by the way is the, uh, station that’s closest to me for the Green Line. Uh, they had other concepts where, um, the, the bus would leave the, the gully, right? It would come up onto Arcade Street, have a station like literally on the bridge, and then make a 90 degree turn on the bridge.
And there was going to be a, like a second bridge built off of the bridge to take-
[00:35:33] Tim: connected to the existing bridge-
[00:35:35] Ian: to, yeah, it was like, it was like a t junction on a bridge where the buses would have a ramp that goes down back to, you know, the, the, the, the valley level. Um. Wow. That what, what a concept.
Um, I cannot imagine that. Like, ever existing in real life.
[00:35:56] Tim: Yeah. And it’d be one thing if it was like, if they were going to be reconstructing the bridge. Um Mm-Hmm. Because there, there’s about to be a, a MnDOT project that’s gonna be redoing Arcade and Seventh Street in that area. Mm-Hmm. Um. Eh, but they’re keeping the bridge.
Um, so it doesn’t need to be replaced there. But yeah, it’s gonna be an existing bridge. They’re gonna be adding, they were thinking about adding to something new on there. Um, and then, uh, through a lot of community voices, people said, you know, we don’t really feel comfortable waiting down in the gully there.
And, you know, it’s something where like. I think it, you know, it’s important for to, to remember that like, people have different experiences. They’re taking transit, you know, like me as a taller white dude is not gonna have the same level of, you know, comfortability or uncomfortability as somebody else.
Right. And so I think that like, it’s important to recognize that, like things that we know as transit users of like, oh, safety comes when there’s eyes on the platform, when there’s eyes on the street, when people can see what’s going on there. Um. Safety ha happens when you feel like you’re not isolated in a certain area.
Mm. And these are all things that like, are a major impact on whether people feel like, I feel even comfortable using the stop, because if you don’t feel comfortable using the stop, well, how do you wanna stop in your area? Right. You know, it’s, you’re not gonna wanna support that. Yeah. Um, and so this is something that’s really important to me too, because this is actually the closest stop to where I live.
Yeah.
Um, so. It’s, you know, when the, when the Purple Line gets built, if I’m still living in the same apartment, this will be my stop. And so I, you know, I’ve been, there’s been a lot of work done by the Payne-Phalen Community Council to really provide community engagement, to talk to their neighbors, to hold events, um, and to really just ask people like, what do you think about this?
What would you like to see? What would make you feel more comfortable? What would make this feel like Your stop. Mm-Hmm. Not just. Something over there that I’m not, I’m not using that. Right. Right. Um, and so through that there was an alternative that was developed by Metro Transit, um, basically where it would come out of the gully a little bit, and then right before Arcade it would duck underneath a bridge underneath Arcade, and then kind of go back to where it is, yeah.
[00:38:13] Ian: And the station would be at that same level as Arcade. Uh, but it would be like, what is it, like a hundred yards down from, like, from the intersection?
[00:38:25] Tim: I’d say maybe a hundred, 150, 200 feet. I don’t know exactly the amount. Yeah. Um, but it would be a little bit set back from the intersection. Right. So if anyone’s familiar with that area, there’s the Y that’s up on a big hill over there.
And it would just be kind of like on the other side of that. Um, so it wouldn’t be as visible coming from Arcade right. As something that’s right on the station.
[00:38:46] Ian: Um, and I, yeah, and I timed out like how long it takes to walk from the intersection to where the station would be. And I think it was, I think it was like 60 seconds.
That seems like it’s probably going to be, um, the happy medium option. Right? Because the other option that that has been published was like, have the bus go all the way up the hill into the parking lot of the strip mall there, have a station. Do a U-turn and then have to drive all the way back down to Phalen Boulevard.
And that seems like it’s just, it’s, it’s going to like. Add too much time to the Purple Line’s total trip.
[00:39:26] Tim: Yeah. And you know, I would say too, like as only one person of this coalition, you know, I know there’s, people have different perspectives on like, what is gonna be the best thing for the project there.
Mm-Hmm. Personally for me, if it goes up there in U-turns like. I would imagine as a transit rider, I would be, if, especially if I didn’t stop there, I’d be irritated every time I passed it and be like, oh, we gotta do this whole thing again.
[00:39:47] Ian: Um, it feels like what the 21 has to do, uh, when it passes by like the, um, the Midtown Global Market building.
[00:39:54] Tim: Yeah. You know, that’s a good comparison.
[00:39:55] Ian: Except like. An even longer detour than that.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:00] Tim: Um, there is another opport, uh, option that is being proposed to Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. And so that one, um, there’s-
[00:40:05] Ian: I’m super excited about this one.
[00:40:07] Tim: Me too. Um, there’s a shopping center that’s right across the, the street from Arcade there.
And so there are in conversations with the people who own that shopping center, about saying, Hey, this is kind of an older building here. What if, you know, we can redevelop this area? Add affordable housing and go through where the shopping center is, and then it just comes back down. Kind of like a-
[00:40:30] Ian: and just, just one corner of the shopping center, right?
Yeah. Yeah. It would take out like one or two storefronts probably.
[00:40:36] Tim: Yeah. And it would kind of be like if you think of like a freeway with a diamond intersection where it kind of goes up and then it goes right back down. Mm. Like on the side of it there. Mm-Hmm. That’s one where me personally, I would be really excited to see that that be pursued right there because.
You know, you’re like housing in transit go very hand in hand and there always is concerns from people about displacement and gentrification with transit projects. And so to be able to have something that will directly add affordable housing as part of the project, and that’s not just an afterthought that will make the station.
Be more like what the community wants it to be. Mm-Hmm. It feels like a win-win win. Now there still is, you know, the, the matter of the people who own that property saying, I don’t know if we wanna do that.
[00:41:25] Ian: Right. It’s, it’s the most complicated in terms of how many stakeholders there are Yeah. To get it working.
[00:41:31] Tim: Yes. And so, you know, it’s still. There’s still gonna be a lot of discussions about that. Um, but this is something where our coalition is really involved in. And one thing that we really want to make sure that we fight for what’s the best option for the people who are using transit in this area and not just have the easiest option be put forward when we’re talking about a project in excess of $400 million.
That is coming, you know, a lot of it, federal money, county money that’s coming into a space that has a lot of impact. This is something that once it’s built, it’s going to stay here for decades at, you know, at the very least. Um, and it has an impact on how people move around in their community in that time.
Um, and so it’s, it’s really important to make sure that it’s done right. And I think that we wanna make sure that just because. We support. It doesn’t mean that it’d be like, oh, okay, we don’t have to worry about doing what they want. They’re not causing problems.
Mm.
And you know, we, we wanna make sure that like, yes, there, there have been concessions made to other places in the project that have caused more problems.
We don’t wanna necessarily be causing problems. We just want to say we, we need this to be the best it can be.
Mm-Hmm.
[00:42:46] Ian: So you’ve been talking about being really impressed with like how much community outreach, uh, the Purple People Coalition has been doing. Let’s, uh, let’s give some bonafides there. Let’s, let’s, let’s, uh, show the receipts.
Yeah. Um, so what kinds of, of community outreach events have we had? Um, there have been a couple of like. Stationary community events, right. Hosted at a specific spot. So we had the Get Out the Gully event hosted at the YMCA, near the Arcade Street station, well, where the Arcade Street station will be. Um, to engage community members in, in deeper discussions about, you know, what would we want this, uh, this station to look like.
We had an event at Cups and Cheers, which is on White Bear Avenue to, you know, get enthusiasm around the project. Um, I don’t remember everything that was being presented there, but there were maps of like the corridor people, you know, folks had chances to, to write stuff down on sticky notes and, you know, put them all over the place.
Uh, one of my favorite forms of, you know, community outreach there. Paris has been doing a, a heck of a lot, uh, of work engaging business owners, you know, along, uh, you know, ’cause he’s, he’s um, the East ESABA, East Side Business Association and, uh, and he’s been engaging a lot of the, uh, white Bear Avenue Business Association members as well.
Move Minnesota’s been organizing a lot of canvassing, uh, sessions. Uh, I know we were talking about Metro State. Metro State University. Mm-Hmm. Thank you. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, and of course, move Minnesota’s bread and butter. We’ve got petitions. Folks have been signing petitions to, you know, express their support for the, uh, for the project.
[00:44:30] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we’re about to have another event at Cups and Cheers, uh, coming up soon of-
[00:44:36] Ian: well probably be by the time this episode comes out. This episode comes out. It will have been yesterday.
[00:44:41] Tim: Yes. But, so I guess now we’ll say we had Talking in the Future, uh, another event at Cups and Cheers.
And the first one we really was. We’re focused on, you know, just kind of introducing a lot of people to the project. Mm-Hmm. And then, uh, we brought out a lot of people from the Iowa High rise that is Yes. Uh, just off of White Bear Avenue, and we’re talking about their experience. There’s, you know, a lot of elderly people living there and, you know, what are your experience crossing the road?
We heard things like, you know, we’ve heard people get hit at that intersection. We don’t feel safe crossing at White Barrier Avenue, even with a traffic light and a walk signal.
Mm-Hmm.
You know, regardless, even worse if there’s not one. And so, you know, just having those voices, bringing project staff out to that place just so they can hear the community voices directly.
Um, and just, you know, do reaching our networks to bring them directly to the staff. Um, and like you said, they had, you know, a bunch of maps there. They had, you know, different people talking about what the project means to them. You know, what’s like, what are the different. Points of discussion coming up, how can people be influenced?
And I mean, even what is the Purple Line in the first place? Right? Right. You know, it’s, a lot of people still don’t know what it is.
[00:45:56] Ian: Um, we almost forgot the parade.
[00:45:59] Tim: Yes, yes.
[00:46:00] Ian: The Purple People had a float, uh, in, in, uh, the White Bear Avenue parade. Uh, I forget what exactly the name of the parade is, but um.
Big community events, uh, looked like a lot of fun. I was really sad that I didn’t get to go. Same. They gave out purple, uh, purple like, uh, lollipops and stuff. Mm-Hmm. That was really cool.
[00:46:20] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Just little things like that and it just, you know, connecting to the events and the resources that are already in our community Mm-Hmm.
And reaching those directly. Um, you know, like in having conversations with business owners on a white Bear Avenue, because I mean, there is a lot of genuine concern about what does. Closing down White Bear Avenue for two years mean right. Yeah, people, some people have had bad experiences with light rail construction, like on the Green Line.
[00:46:46] Ian: Yeah.
[00:46:46] Tim: You know, some people lost their businesses during that time. Some people, you know, even with there being displacement funding there, for some people it wasn’t enough or they had a difficult time accessing it. And so, you know, what, what does, what can we take from there to learn and make a better experience here?
Now, on one hand, a two year construction period is easier than a four year construction period. Yeah. And that definitely helps things out. But we’re also still talking about. A business corridor that is in a low income area that doesn’t have the same resources, that doesn’t have the same access to lending sometimes or the same, you know, money saved up in their pockets to be able to survive some of these things.
A lot of the business owners there, um, are really directly serving certain communities like the Hmong community or Hispanic community. Mm-Hmm. And they are lifelines for them. They’re grocery stores, they’re places of food, they’re places of connection. We don’t wanna see the project come through, they get moved out and then the community feel is changing in the area.
Mm-Hmm.
And so, um, one of the things that we are really focused on as a coalition is really centering anti displacement work center centering money that’s funding for business mitigation. Um, it’s something that the Blue Line extension has done. They got mm-hmm. $10 million from the state to do anti displacement work and, you know, to start that out with the Green Line.
They got business mitigation funding. How do we make sure that we don’t forget about that while we’re doing this project? Right. You know, it if we want business owners to feel like this is their project too, in the same way as people living near arcade won’t feel like it’s their project if they can’t feel like they use the station, A business owner doesn’t want to feel like it’s their project if they don’t even know if they’re gonna survive this project.
Right. And so part of the discussion is saying that a lot of them don’t like the way White Bear Avenue is right now. They do recognize that this needs to change. They recognize that it’s not safe. They recognize that sometimes people like don’t feel comfortable walking to their place. Mm-hmm. From there.
Um, they can understand that like new transit riders can bring new business, but it’s making sure that they can be engaged and they can start saying how this. Like, instead of just saying yes, no, there’s, there’s more complexity than that. It’s how do we get to a yes? How do we make sure that this serves us?
How do we make sure that we survive through this?
[00:49:04] Ian: Yeah, yeah. And like, how do we make sure that businesses can stick around, but also that we change a lot of the strip malls that are there into something more like, you know, pedestrian friendly and oriented towards. You know, the transit experience, right?
Mm-Hmm. The strip mall that we were talking about at Arcade, like that is a golden opportunity to be able to add housing while also building some specific infrastructure for the purple line, right? Yeah. For a lot of the White Bear Avenue corridor, right? Like the Purple Line itself is not going to directly be touching a lot of those strip malls, but like.
How do we encourage better land use, you know, and, and what does that look like? While also maintaining like, you know, keeping, keeping businesses around.
[00:49:54] Tim: Yeah. I mean, a lot of those parking, lots of those strip malls are not used. It’s a lot of empty space. Like I have yet to see that Seeger Square shopping center at Arcade, even a third of the way full.
There, there’s just not that demand for all this space and there is demand for new housing. Mm-Hmm. You know, a lot of the housing stock in that part of the city is very old. It’s not the greatest quality sometimes. And you know, it’s, you know, we, we, we still are in a housing crisis. We still have people who need more places to stay.
And so ensuring that we do have affordable housing that’s centered in these discussions and that’s brought along with that and that can. Be featured in some of these redevelopment talks. You know, like right near White Bear, there’s a big empty lot that a whole bunch of food trucks be around and stuff, and it’s just been sitting like that for a long time.
There isn’t market demand to build something there right now. I. If we build a transit project there, that changes the dynamics of what becomes realistic for a company to wanna put in there or another, um, organization to wanna say, Hey, let’s provide housing for people right there. Mm-Hmm. Let’s build more units and stuff that are near these businesses so that people can walk to those businesses.
A friend of mine, he moved to New York a little while ago and he was like, oh, everyone always says New York is so expensive, but it’s like, besides the housing, right? Every, like everything I can pretty much get for the same price and sometimes cheaper than Minneapolis. And he is like, I realize like why people care about density now.
It’s because there’s enough people going to these stores, going to these businesses that they don’t have to charge exorbitant, you know? Amounts of things to have a huge profit margin. Mm-Hmm. They can make it cheaper. They can make it more affordable for places. Mm-Hmm. For people to come and visit. And so, you know, that’s, that’s part of the discussion over here is how do we ensure that, you know, we can have new development that can add more neighbors to our community, that can, you know, enrich our culture, enrich our community on the east side and, and help it grow.
Uh, we are having the, the Heights right near the project about Oh, yeah. Um, a half mile away that. Is going to be adding over a thousand housing units. Um, a lot of those are gonna be affordable. It’s gonna be adding a lot of industrial jobs. It’s gonna be adding new community nodes and, you know-
[00:52:10] Ian: was there, was there a new transit as part of that project?
[00:52:13] Tim: Network Now. Route 61 is gonna be rerouting there. Oh, nice. So it’s gonna go all the way to Century Avenue. We’ll see if it happens, you know, but, um, it’s still in the community engagement process.
[00:52:23] Ian: Sure, sure, sure, sure.
[00:52:24] Tim: Being able to kind of create more of that connected corridor in that area and to see development happens that still doesn’t leave the businesses behind, is something I really want to see.
I want to see more new units that people can have. Housing that doesn’t have, you know, rodents in there that doesn’t have, you know, housing that is really, you know, leaking the air in the winter and super cold and, you know, doesn’t have like AC built into it and stuff. That, that’s a value for people, that makes people want to stay in a community longer when they have housing that they like.
[00:52:54] Ian: So Tim, what the heck is going on in Maplewood?
[00:52:56] Tim: Maplewood. Maplewood.
[00:52:58] Ian: Oh my God.
[00:52:59] Tim: So if you are not aware, recently, uh, Maplewood had a resolution that they passed, um, basically saying three things. First, we like transit. Transit is good.
[00:53:14] Ian: Uhhuh.
[00:53:15] Tim: Okay, great.
[00:53:16] Ian: Um, I hate it when people start that way. It makes me real nervous about what’s coming next.
[00:53:21] Tim: Yeah. You know, I’m like, okay. You know, I, I, I like transit too. Awesome. We can just stop right there. Mm-Hmm. And we’d be perfect. Mm-Hmm. Right. Yeah.
[00:53:29] Ian: No buts about it.
[00:53:31] Tim: But, uh, the second resolution they passed was saying, Hey, we do not want the purple line in the Bruce Vento trail. Okay.
[00:53:38] Ian: Okay. Fine.
[00:53:39] Tim: We agree with that too.
Uhhuh. Great. Can we just leave it there? Yeah. And then they passed a third resolution saying we do not want the purple line on White Bear Avenue either. So
[00:53:51] Ian: [mocking tone] they, they want it in the sky. We want flying buses.
[00:53:55] Tim: And so at this point. Pretty much means that if- that they do not want the Purple Line in their community.
[00:54:01] Ian: Right?
[00:54:02] Tim: It was a very close vote. It was a three to two vote, and there is an election coming up that this is going to be a central issue in the Maplewood City Council election. So things may change after November, there could be a new vote that changes the dynamics of what Maplewood is supporting. Once again, like we had talked about with the White Bear Lake situation.
They do not have a direct veto on the project. Right. Met council, the state can still say, we want this to happen. It could still happen.
[00:54:32] Ian: Yeah. And, and you know, a lot of the, the Ramsey County commissioners right, who shaped this project and then handed it off to Metro Transit, they are still very much 100% behind the Purple Line. And it seems to me like they are not gonna take any of, uh, any of Maplewood’s BS here.
[00:54:54] Tim: I would hope so, and I encourage people who are listening to reach out to their county commissioners to reach out to the Met Council, to reach out to state legislators because it’s, it’s down in the hands of politicians at this point, whether it continues or not.
There’s gonna be pressure on both sides for this. Uh, a lot of the reasons that they were opposed to it is. They said it’s going to drastically change White Bear Avenue. And I’m like, we need to change White Bear Avenue. Once again, it is one of the most dangerous roads in the county.
It’s frustrating to me to see how ridership numbers can be used as a weapon too.
[00:55:29] Ian: Okay.
[00:55:30] Tim: Because when we’re coming out of Covid, we’re still using the federal formulas from pre Covid. Mm-Hmm. Some of these federal formulas haven’t been unchanged since the Trump years and. These are still relying on saying people just want to take transit to downtown.
[00:55:46] Ian: Yeah.
[00:55:47] Tim: And they’re also looking at it and saying, okay, there isn’t as many people using the bus today as there were in 2019, which is true.
And they’re also looking and saying, well, in 2019 we weren’t having massive growth every year of our transit system, which is true. Mm-Hmm. So they’re looking at that and saying, okay, so. Transit grows at a, you know, a steady rate. So let’s put that into today’s terms and imagine that it’s gonna keep growing at a steady rate.
So in Maplewood, they were saying that between now and 2045, there would only be 400 new transit riders in Maplewood, which I cannot see that being at all remotely possible right now. People might say, oh, you’re just biased because you take the bus. I would say that looking at the ridership numbers for our BRT this year.
Uh, the growth that’s happened between 2023 and 2024, the percentage growth Mm-Hmm. Would already be more than those 400 new riders. Right. Right. In one year, and we’re talking about 21 years out, you, you’re also looking even in the notes, the thing that they conveniently left out was they, Metro Transit said what could change that is if they had more development along that corridor.
Yep. Maplewood as one of their goals, uh, from hearing from one of the council members was to have, add another 10,000 new residents in the city.
Mm-Hmm.
Where are you gonna put these 10,000 new people living in the city? A lot of times you wanna put them near transit lines, that’s going to provide more growth, but they can only model what they know is gonna happen.
They can’t necessarily just speculate. Right? And so if these formulas were adjusted more to the context that we live in today, where we see more people using transit, every year we see our recovery that’s happening. We see more people wanting to take transit around their neighborhoods instead of just commuting to downtown.
We see. I mean, go on bus rides or bus routes In the Twin Cities, a lot of them, they’re pretty full.
Mm-Hmm.
You provide better access for people, you’ll see more ridership. Mm-Hmm. So hopefully, hopefully we’ll see action that will bring the city around or other partners that want to keep this project going.
As a coalition, we’re hoping to continue doing what we were before. Make sure this is the best transit project it can be, that can serve the most people as possible.
[00:57:59] Ian: Mm-Hmm. And reaching out to. People in the community to engage them on all of these things. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, so Tim, you’re gonna keep fighting the good fight.
[00:58:09] Tim: I will.
[00:58:10] Ian: I’m right there with you. Yeah. And uh, and we’ve got a great, great group of purple people who are dearly beloved gathered here for better transit. I love John Slate adn all of his Prince references.
[00:58:26] Tim: It’s amazing.
[00:58:27] Ian: Awesome. Yeah. Thanks for coming on the show, Tim.
[00:58:29] Tim: Definitely. Thanks for having me.
[00:58:32] Ian: Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Streets.mn Podcast.
The show is released under a creative comments attribution, non-commercial non derivative license. So feel free to republish the episode as long as you are not altering it and you are not profiting from it. The music in this episode is by Eric Brandt and the Urban Hillbilly Quartet. This episode was edited by Jeremy Winter and was hosted and transcribed by me, Ian R Buck.
We are always looking to feature new voices on the Streets.mn Podcast. So if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [[email protected]]
Streets.mn is a community blog and podcast and relies on contributions from audience members like you. If you can make a one-time or recurring donation, you can find more information about doing so at [https://streets.mn/donate].
Find other listeners and discuss the episode on your favorite social media platform using the hashtag #StreetsMNPodcast. Until next time, take care.