The young transportation activists of today are the legislators of tomorrow. Let’s meet some of the students who are getting involved in advocacy at an early age!
Links
- Our Streets’ Bring Back 6th.
- Harding’s transportation page still has a bike map that Ian added in 2020.
- The Purple People Coalition (note: the Purple Line project has since been renamed the Bronze Line).
Attributions
Our theme song is Tanz den Dobberstein, and our interstitial song is Puck’s Blues. Both tracks used by permission of their creator, Erik Brandt. Find out more about his band, The Urban Hillbilly Quartet, on their website.
This episode was hosted and edited by Ian R Buck and was transcribed by Parker Seaman aka Strongthany. Many thanks to Asanti, Michael, and Thomas for coming on the show! We’re always looking to feature new voices on the show, so if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [email protected].
Transcript
[00:00:02] Ian: Welcome to the Streets.mn podcast, the show where we highlight how transportation and land use can make our communities better places. Coming to you from beautiful, uptown Minneapolis, Minnesota, I am your host, Ian R. Buck. In our last episode, we learned that before Scott Dibble and Frank Hornstein were transportation champions in the state legislature, they were young activists fighting against a highway expansion. In this episode, we’ll meet some of today’s young activists who are going to be the next generation of transportation champions. First, we’ll talk to Asanti, who has been doing an internship with Our Streets. For… how long has that been going on?
[00:00:43] Asanti: For a little over a year now.
[00:00:46] Ian: Okay, nice. And do they, is there like a time cap on it? Like how long do you expect it to be gone?
[00:00:54] Asanti: Um, there’s not really a cap on it. I’m sort of like just there interning and sometimes like I go to their meetings or I join in on events they do. But as of right now, there’s not really like an end date for my internship.
[00:01:09] Ian: Cool. Okay, so let’s kind of back up to the to the beginning, right? Like what got you interested in urbanism in the first place?
[00:01:19] Asanti:For me, honestly, it started pretty randomly. I started out at the Best Buy Teen Tech Center that used to be in Summit Academy. And I did an internship there. It was a tech internship. And then I got offered to be a part of a youth advocacy grant. And with that youth advocacy like program, we got to pick what we worked on. And the project that we chose was focusing on Olson Memorial Highway and the way it’s set up and the safety issues around it. So during that internship, what we did, we did research, we saw like, it had one of the highest like crash rates in Minneapolis. And we’re like, we want to change this. So we advocated, we reached out to people, we talked to other businesses in the area, and they all agreed that this was something that needed to be fixed. And pretty much what happened is our streets also heard of it. So they also now have a project around it. But what we did to like kind of emphasize like how this highway is dangerous is we looked at the amount of crashes that were there. We looked at the death toll, the accident, like civilian accidents, like this one kid that went to Best Buy, the Teen Tech Center, he got hit by a car. So we interviewed him, we interviewed some other people. And overall, like, it was a almost like collective agreement that this highway needed to be fixed. And I think as of right now, the speed limit did get lowered. They put bump, like buffers around the walkways, making it longer. And they also reduced the lanes from, I believe, three to two, like on each side.
[00:03:05] Ian: Nice. Yeah. And so that was like, you were combining publicly available data about like crash statistics with some like personal interviews and like, yeah, what do you call that?
[00:03:14] Asanti: I think that’s some reviews.
[00:03:16] Ian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s really cool. That’s an awesome project. Does this like, does this tie into how you typically get around town? Like, you know, do you have a driver’s license yet? Do you have access to a car or are you relying on like transit and bikes and stuff?
[00:03:35] Asanti: I rely on a car. The area I live in, I currently move from Brooklyn Park to Coon Rapids, and it’s not walkable. Like if I wanted to walk to Cub or the gas station, it would take me like 30, 40 minutes and I’d have to cross major roads and it’s just not safe. And even when I lived in Brooklyn Park, it was the same issue. There was no sidewalks and when there were, it would go for like a block and then cut off or I’d just have to be walking on the street.
[00:04:03] Ian: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, you definitely have that perspective on things. All right, so student advocacy is pretty common, right? But we typically think of it being like about big national issues, you know, anti-war protests on college campuses, that kind of thing. So how, like, when you talk to other high schoolers your age, like how aware are they about, you know, urbanist issues?
[00:04:30] Asanti: For me, the people I’ve spoken to about this issue is that like most teens feel like they feel the urban issues, but they’re not realizing the issues. Like they will go for a walk and the sidewalk will cut off. They’ll be upset, but it’s like, they just walk around and walk on the street or while they’re biking, there’s no bike lane. It’s just, they realize the issues, but they don’t like understand how it actually affects them in a sense.
[00:04:59] Ian: Or like, do they understand that like, it doesn’t have to be this way? Like this was a choice that somebody made.
[00:05:06] Asanti: Most did understand that, but some thought it was just how they wanted the area to look. You know, some areas they focus more on aesthetics rather than actual people. Like if you look in some neighborhoods, my old neighborhood, only my road had a sidewalk. And once you got to the end of my block, it was just no sidewalks.
[00:05:30] Ian: Yeah, the suburban ideal in quotes, right? Yeah. All right, so you did that advocacy project with the Teen Tech Center and then that led into Our Streets. Our Streets became, you know, kind of a partner on that. Is that right?
[00:05:45] Asanti: Yeah, I got offered the internship through like the Tech Center and Our Streets. They reached out to one of the workers at the Tech Center, Sarah. And she spoke to me about the opportunity to be an intern there. And I’m like, yeah, like, let me go for it. It’s something like, it’s new. It’s something I’ve had, I’ve done recently. So I’m like, this is something I can do. I want to do it.
[00:06:16] Ian: Nice. Yeah. And so what has your like, have you been mostly still focused on Olson Memorial Highway? Or is this like, you know, what other stuff have you touched during your time with Our Streets?
[00:06:30] Asanti: During my time with Our Streets, I mainly focused on a new campaign they’re trying to launch. It’s to prevent the expansion of Highway 252 that goes into 94. I wanted to focus on that one due to the fact that was the road I used to live on. Like my house was, I can get straight to the highway from there. And I’m thinking like, if they expand this, if I still live there, what was going to happen to my house? I have friends that live in the area too. So it’s like, what will happen to them and their homes and their health when this highway does get expanded if it does.
[00:07:04] Ian: It’s so important to have like, have that local connection and that awareness of who’s there and who’s going to be affected and yeah, absolutely.
[00:07:12] Asanti: And it was also to me, like, I, you know that I know the effects of how cars are like the carbon emissions, how it like can raise asthma in areas due to the air pollution. So it’s like, my little brother, he had asthma. So what would have happened to him if they did expand the highway and we lived right next to it?
[00:07:31] Ian: Yeah, or like, it’s so hard to prove a negative or disprove a negative, but like, you know, would he have developed asthma if you had been living farther away from a highway? Right? Yeah. Like it’s so hard to know.
[00:07:47] Asanti: It is. And it’s also like, I saw like, I was a part of some of the PAC meetings for the 252 expansion and I saw their like ideal, like what they wanted, like their mock imaging of it. And they showed an example off of 73rd Avenue. My, that’s where my house was and they had an above highway and a below highway option and the above highway went right to my house, my old house through the yard.
[00:08:15] Ian: Wow.
[00:08:16] Asanti: So it’s also like the excess traffic that would come like, then kids can’t even play in their yards. So many negatives to expand a highway and especially there’s really no proven benefit for it. Like they say it will quicken traffic, but we also see in Texas, they have, wasn’t it a 23 lane highway if I’m remembering right? And they still have like insane traffic.
[00:08:42] Ian: Right, right. It’s whatever number you think of, it’s probably more and it’s ridiculous, right?
[00:08:48] Asanti: Yeah, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they added more. Like they got to 20, what makes you think they’re not going to get to 30? And it’s also, it’s dangerous to have that big of a highway, especially like you’re on the far right lane and you’re trying to exit to the left. How are you going to get there and be safe?
[00:09:07] Ian: And it’s so frustrating to hear like the metric of, well, we need more lanes to speed up traffic being given when it’s like, well, speeding up traffic is going to make it more dangerous, you know? Like we want slow traffic.
[00:09:23] Asanti: And there’s also so many other options that can be taken. Like our main source of transportation shouldn’t just be cars. There can be buses. I know there’s buses in Minneapolis area, but there’s none that run up to Blaine. My aunt, she lives off of Lexington and there’s no buses that go up there. So there’s ways that we can like limit how many cars are on the highway by introducing more public transportation.
[00:09:51] Ian: Yep, yep. Yeah, I think Blaine is one of the areas where they recently introduced Metro Micro. And so it makes me more interested in visiting Blaine than I ever have been before. Because when you improve the transit, it’s like, yeah, I can get around.
[00:10:10] Asanti: Especially for those who like, some people can’t get their license due to like health issues or, you know, some people are just too young to get their license. And it’s just like being able, those spaces, being able to get there through public transportation is better. You can try new places, visit new businesses. It benefits the local area and places farther away since they’re able to now visit there.
[00:10:35] Ian: What has the dynamic felt like for you as a student in urbanist advocacy spaces? Have you felt like your ideas are being heard by the community?
[0011:00] Asanti: For me, with Our Streets, I feel like my thoughts and like ideas are being heard. Because like, I’m like, just because I’m younger doesn’t mean I’m not seeing everything as well. Like, I can see the sidewalk is being cut off. That’s not good. How are people supposed to get around? I also like, I noticed that adding lanes isn’t going to benefit us, especially it’ll just create more traffic. So I feel like in my experience, I feel like I’m being heard in my opinion to take it into account. But I know for like other areas of advocacy as well as like different nonprofits, it’s like sometimes they’re not being heard properly or like they’re just being ignored.
[00:11:23] Ian: That would be a very frustrating experience.
[00:11:26] Asanti: Yeah. What have you learned or have there been any experiences that you’ve had that you weren’t expecting? Some experiences I’ve had was I got to meet like so many new people. I’ve got like Ilhan Omar.
[00:11:40] Ian: Wow.
[00:11:40] Asanti: In my life, in my life, I never thought I’d be able to meet her. And I got to meet her at an Open Street event, I believe. It was for Olson Memorial Highway. And it was just like, wow, I’m actually like meeting her and getting to talk to her. And it was, it was great. Like, I don’t know, I felt like that’s something I would have never been able to do without the help of like, becoming like trying to become an advocate and like, help people.
[00:12:04] Ian: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Did you, were you able to keep it chill or like?
[00:12:10] Asanti: Yeah, I was able to keep it chill, but like inside I’m like, oh my God, oh my God, I get to meet her. Especially since like me, I’m Muslim as well. And I’m from East Africa. So like seeing an East African girl, like do something that almost has never been done before. It’s like, wow, like you’re amazing. And I want to be you.
[00:12:29] Ian: Yep! Yep! As a jaded, you know, older person in the advocacy spaces, (I’m only 33) sometimes it feels like our hard work doesn’t give us the outcome that we’re looking forward to. So what keeps you optimistic so that you can continue advocating?
[00:12:46] Asanti: I think it’s seeing the small changes and things like for Olson Memorial Highway, when I was trying to, you know, doing that youth advocacy grant, I like the small changes we saw afterwards, the lanes being reduced, the speed limit lowering. It’s like, even if it’s not a lot, it’s still something and it’s still helping people. It’s still benefiting those around it. And I think also what keeps me motivated is that just because it’s not working now, doesn’t mean it won’t work in the future. Like, you’ll never succeed if you stop, is my mindset. This is more like a younger term, but you’ll miss every shot you don’t take.
[00:13:23] Ian: Sure.
[00:13:25] Asanti: Like a basketball thing.
[00:13:30] Ian: We need to get our head in the game, right? Yeah, that’s that’s high school musicals more from my era. What are you planning on doing after you graduate? Do these advocacy experiences factor into that at all?
[00:13:46] Asanti: Yeah, I finalized what degree I wanted. I was, I want to be a social worker. I want to go into social work. It’s like, it’s something that I believe fits me. I like helping people, advocating for people and especially being able to help like if I do become a social worker, like help the youth be able to motivate them, especially if I’m able to like even help them become an advocate. Like it’s something that will benefit, like help me continue my advocacy work and benefit those who I get to help. And it’s also with the social work degree. You don’t only have to go into social work. You can also do other advocacy work. So it’s like if I do go into social work, then I don’t have to stop advocating. And that’s something I really like to do. I love advocating. I love helping people and changing things that I see as wrong.
[00:14:38] Ian: That’s awesome. Yeah, and having the perspective of like how all of these different areas like tie together, you know, we can’t talk about transportation without also talking about housing and we can’t talk about housing without also talking about land use. And you know, and you know, the effects that all three of those have on people’s lives and how they’re able to support themselves. And you know, and then that comes back around to affecting the transportation and housing and you know, whatnot. Like it’s all interconnected.
[00:15:13] Asanti: Yeah, and that’s like something that is really big and just the advocacy seen in general because if you’re advocating for one thing, then it’s more likely than not that someone else is advocating for the thing that connects to what you want. And it’s always great when you meet those people and you get to understand what they’re working on, what you’re working on and it’s really just a great experience.
[00:15:37] Ian: Yeah, that community building aspect is huge for sure. Well, Asanti, thank you so much for coming on the show.
[00:15:45] Asanti: Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this.
[00:15:53] Ian: Next, let’s chat with Michael who goes to Harding High School, but recently got connected with a Discord server that’s a social space for transit activists at the U of M. What got you interested in like urbanism as a topic?
[00:16:06] Michael: Well, I’d say, you know, like improve because I use transit a lot. I mean, especially like with my friends. So I was like, how can I make this even funner and even better? You know, so I was like, so I just looked into it, you know, like oh all these organizations and you know, now it’s pretty interesting. It’s kind of like I don’t want to go into this other career, but we’ll see, we’ll see.
[00:16:26] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. And okay, so you use transit a lot, which I think is fairly unusual for kids who grow up on the east side of St. Paul. Like and when I was working at Harding, you know, when we were coming back from the pandemic and we had like a severe shortage of bus drivers, that’s when we like all of St. Paul Public Schools shifted to using Metro Transit instead of yellow school buses. I hear that they’ve gone back to yellow school buses. Is that is that true at Harding?
[00:16:58] Michael: That is true. And they also removed the option to get any bus card from SPPS like during the school year from Harding. So yeah, it’s kind of yeah.
[00:17:07] Ian: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, because during that time like my little brother was attending Harding as a high schooler and he really enjoyed having that bus card because on weekends he would be like, yeah, my friends and I are just going to like jump on a random bus and see where it takes us. And I was like, okay, sure.
[00:17:27] Michael: Yeah, that was my favorite part about the bus cards. I mean, really everyone did after school activities. Everyone would just go hang out. It’s like, oh, yeah, we’re going to 63 and see where it takes us. It was always kind of fun like that. But without the bus cards, it’s definitely died down in that kind of activity.
[00:17:44] Ian: Right, right. Yeah. I remember like I nobody told me to do this but as like one of the only staff members who biked to school, I felt a responsibility to like make a bunch of bike and transit maps for students of the areas surrounding Harding to try to make it easier for, you know, to like to shift the narrative a little bit, right? Because at the time like our, the principal who we had, she lived way out by Afton State Park and just like like public transit was not a part of her lived experience whatsoever. So she wasn’t doing a whole lot to like push that forward as a positive thing for students. So I was trying to kind of like bring bring the other perspective. Yeah. Okay. So student advocacy is not an uncommon thing, but usually when we societally think about student advocacy, it’s like big national issues like anti-war protests. So when you’re chatting with your high school peers, like how how aware do they seem to be of like urbanist issues?
[00:19:01] Michael: Well, I’d say definitely they’re less talked about than other issues, especially with like Palestine and other things transit issues aren’t really focused on but when I bring it up, I mean people are interested but not a lot of people hear about it, you know, I don’t know how that’s going to be afterwards when I leave Harding but yeah, I say urbanism is not top of the list. But when it is brought up, they’re like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that’s pretty cool. I was like I’m with the purple people when they had the community meeting in Maplewood not too long ago. I told some of my friends about it and it’s like, oh I didn’t know what’s going on. Like they’ve been kind of more like, oh Michael, how’s the purple line going? I’ll tell them so definitely it’s people will stay engaged if they actually know about it.
[00:19:48] Ian: Yeah. Are there any particular like things right around the Harding campus that students are kind of, you know, like, oh, I wish that it was like easier to walk to wherever, you know without having to like cross a busy street or something like that.
[00:20:03] Michael: Well, I’d say there’s not much particular issues that people bring up but like especially with this is more like that’s a little farther out than Harding, but the Earl Street like bike infrastructure. That’s been like a small conversation with some of my peers and also with the with the gold mine. They’re like, oh, I wish it was easier to get to the gold mine because the gold mine is I think a 15 minute walk.
[00:20:26] Ian: It’s a bit of a hike, yeah.
[00:20:28] Michael: it’s a bit of a walk. So it’s like, oh man, if I had a bike was like, I don’t want to bring a bike. So it’s like, oh bike share topics, you know, so that kind of a big conversation right now.
[00:20:39] Ian: Yeah, just having any wheels to go just because it’s almost all downhill from Harding to the gold mine station. Yeah, so so you’re in this Discord server. Are there any other like, you know, is it all just talking about trains and excitement about trains or is there like is there advocacy push in that group? What have you been involved with?
[00:21:00] Michael: Oh, well, that’s how I heard about this in the server. It’s not just trains, you know, I thought it’s gonna be about trains but then like, you know, like it’s not just trains. So there’s a there’s like a transit part. We’re talking about like just general transit topics. There’s transit like but they talk about all sorts of transit stuff. And then there’s also an advocacy part. That’s where I heard of this because I was like, wait, I was looking through I was like, oh Streets.mn and then I was like, oh Ian Buck. Okay, I got to get on this.
[00:21:25] Ian: Are they really active with like the I-94, you know, I know there’s a group that’s like pushing for rail in in the in the rethinking I-94 process.
[00:21:38] Michael: Well, I’d say I I haven’t seen much about it in the server. I mean, I’m kind of new so they probably have talked about it, but I’d have to dig deeper.
[00:21:46] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What what grade are you in?
[00:21:50] Michael: I am a senior.
[00:21:51] Ian: Okay, cool. So not too unusual to be like hanging out with some college students in this advocacy space, yeah.
[00:21:56] Michael: Yeah, but I mean I say it’s still kind of odd. I mean, I would have got into it earlier if it was easier to know about these kind of groups. I only heard about like move Minnesota, streets MN and like the discord server like this like this year. So it’s like why was it so hard to find out about you guys?
[00:22:14] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. I mean because how did you find out about that? You know, it’s kind of a student server at the University of Minnesota, right? So yeah, like how does it how does a high schooler on the east side of Saint Paul stumble across a group like that?
[00:22:27] Michael: Well, I’d say if there’s layers to it, you know, you know, Tim Marino. Yeah, uh-huh. So me and Tim Marino were talking at a Move Minnesota event and he was like I got to add you to the server and then I end up in the server. It’s like, okay, that’s fun.
[00:22:42] Ian: Nice. Okay. Yeah, when Tim moved to the east side, I got him connected with the Purple People. So that’s I’m glad that everything’s like coming back around. It’s yeah, these connections. So what has the dynamic felt like as a student in urbanist spaces obviously in that particular server ever almost everybody or students but like yeah, have you like when you go to the purple people events and stuff like have you felt like your ideas are being heard by the community?
[00:23:13] Michael: Well, I’d say definitely it’s a lot of talking at me, you know, but I mean the Purple People they’re really good at integrating me into the space even though I don’t really have anything I really bring to the table right now, but yeah, I had an idea about like outreach things during the like any time of the year during the National Night Out stuff. We were going to proceed with that but it was a little like we just couldn’t do it, but they they at least listen to the idea. They at least entertained it, you know, I like that.
[00:23:40] Ian: Nice and your perspective as like a heavy transit user. I hope is being heard for sure.
[00:23:46] Michael: I mean, you don’t really hear about youth being involved with transit a lot. So I guess that’s like the most important part of me is like, oh, he’s not he’s not 20 to 100 years old talking about transit.
[00:23:57] Ian: What have you learned or what experiences that you weren’t expecting? Have you had?
[00:24:04] Michael: Well, I’d say I didn’t expect it to be this easy and this difficult to really be involved like the purple people. I just asked to join and they just let me out. But then to actually like do things like with movement of soda. I need to be 18 in order to actually like do any of the bus canvassing.
[00:24:21] Ian: Oh interesting.
[00:24:22] Michael: Okay, there are other activities so it’s like it’s kind of hard especially. It’s like I’m not gonna turn 18 till June. So I got like kind of dumb but I get it.
[00:24:31] Ian: You know, yeah. Yeah, I imagine there’s liability stuff and whatnot.
[00:24:35] Michael: Yeah.
[00:24:37] Ian: Now sometimes, you know, when you’ve been in an advocacy space for a while sometimes it seems like our hard work doesn’t give us the outcome that we’re looking for. So what keeps you optimistic so that you can keep continue the fight?
[00:24:51] Michael: Well, I’d say the biggest thing that keeps me optimistic right now is like I’m young. I mean like so many people are like 50 plus they won’t see the fruits of their labor even if like especially with the purple line and how like how the bus lanes are turning out right now. It’s like, oh, okay. Yeah, that’s that’s a bummer. But yeah, I still probably at least have like 50 years to live on average. So like, you know, I I’m not gonna sweat it too much. There’s everything changes eventually. So it is what it is.
[00:25:19] Ian: Yeah as much as people sometimes like to think of their like neighborhood is a static unchanging like I moved here because it’s like this and it’s never going to it’s always going to be like this like no, that’s the city’s change. That’s kind of what they’re what they’re for. Do you have what are your plans for after high school have these advocacy experiences factored into you know, like where you’re planning to go after this?
[00:25:44] Michael: Well, definitely. I mean I was a part of the the youth leadership rethinking item before youth leadership program and I was like MnDOT has some pretty cool careers, especially related to that project in particular. So I wanted to see how I could how I could get involved in that. So I’ve been looking at like various majors, you know communications things to keep it broad, but I might have to really go into like transportation themed things in order to really stay involved in urbanism. Yeah, so we’ll see how that goes.
[00:26:11] Ian: Nice nice has the fact that like this discord server that you found that it’s based at the University of Minnesota. Does that make you like more likely to pick that as a as a as a university to go to?
[00:26:24] Michael: Well, definitely not that I kind of know some people know some clubs there too. So it’s like, oh, I feel like if I go there, I won’t be alone. There’s definitely a big community of like urbanist and other things. I mean maybe but I don’t know U of M. We’ll see how that goes. There’s other complications with it.
[00:26:42] Ian: Sure. Sure. Yeah, but I mean that’s you know, it’s it’s good to know for colleges that like, you know, if they’re if they foster a good healthy like environment of student advocacy groups like that can attract students to them for sure.
[00:26:59] Michael: Definitely.
[00:27:00] Ian: Well, thank you for coming on the show.
[00:27:02] Michael: Yeah, thank you for letting me. Have a good day.
[00:27:10] Ian: Finally, we’ll chat with Thomas who was astonished during his sophomore year when a letter he wrote to MnDOT ended up landing him a meeting with project staff. Thomas, I understand that you have been getting involved with urbanism advocacy stuff. I know when you were a student in my class in particular you turned in a couple of assignments that were like you made an educational app about induced demand if I remember correctly.
[00:27:39] Thomas: Yeah, that was special. It talked about the Katie Freeway and why Amsterdam is doing things right and why induced demand is bad. That was my first ever coding project and I’m like part of it was of course like okay, probably will help my grade but also it was the first idea that came to mind and like this I got to make an app about that.
[00:27:59] Ian: When you say you thought it would help you grade you mean that like because you know that I bike commute and I’m and I’m in the advocacy space you’re like, I’m going to play to the audience here Okay.
[00:28:09] Thomas: exactly. Exactly. I mean, maybe if you were a pickup truck enthusiast, maybe I could have made a truck app, but I don’t really have the knowledge so probably would have been that great, right?
[00:28:20] Ian: Hopefully, I’m not that shallow as as a grader, but yeah, so so I mean, it’s always a little bit surprising to me when I like meet high schoolers who are interested in this so I wanted to ask. Yeah, like what initially got you interested in these kinds of topics and kind of going along those lines. I assume that it has something to do with like how you typically get around town.
[00:28:45] Thomas: Yeah, I would I would say so initially it was really just I’ve always been a big fan of just watching YouTube. So kind of at one point I got a not just bikes video recommended to me and just the very very captivating how he does it. He just essentially just like full out honest and like this sucks and he doesn’t sugarcoat it or anything. I was like, wow, and then I watched like the whole 30 minutes thing and then more and more videos and eventually I’m getting like, you know city nerd and city beautiful and these other urbanism channels. I’m like, okay, I’m hooked and it makes me realize how nice some parts of Minneapolis are for walking and biking and then just other parts from like you can’t get around here without a car and it just really made me like kind of open my eyes and then because I’ve always walked to school and I bike everywhere. I always love biking. It’s just been like well, this is something that I could definitely be passionate about.
[00:29:45] Ian: Yeah. I I’m glad to know that the the ever-present algorithm is working in our favor at sometimes.
[00:29:53] Thomas: Exactly. Exactly. And then I think what really like pushed it to actually go from just watching YouTube to wanting to make a difference was around this time last year when the election results came out and I’m like, okay, so everything is going to be kind of going backwards now and obviously there’s a lot of stuff I can’t control but I want to do something and you know at a local level where there’s not as much influence like perfect. I like, you know, so I reach out to our streets and I reached out to MnDOT and one of the guys at MnDOT asked me to come in and meet with him and our streets. They asked me to come meet with them and it just kind of started from there, but it was really YouTube and then the election results and just motivation in general them like let’s do this. Yeah, ready to make a difference.
[00:30:39] Ian: Yeah, and that and that like desire to make a difference is pretty common among students. I think, you know, we’re all familiar with a lot of like student protest movements and things, but those are yeah, but those are like usually about big national issues. You know, we think about like anti-war protests and things like that. So and obviously I am, I work with high schoolers on a day-to-day basis, but like I don’t know what you all are talking to each other about all the time. So like in your sense, like how how aware are most of your high school peers about like these kinds of issues?
[00:31:17] Thomas: Yeah, and that’s that’s a question I’ve kind of it’s like an interesting one because some care a lot more than others. Like I know just last year telling people about this. Of course, I’m like guys check this out. Like look how big of a difference turning this freeway into a Boulevard would make and some people were like, okay, but there were a few others who were like, whoa, that’s actually like really cool. You’re saving the world and stuff. And I’ve noticed that those same people who told me that I’ve been on Instagram. I’ll sometimes get videos recommended to me just about like, you know, the atrocious state of like pedestrian infrastructure in America. It’s like just becoming like a meme of sorts and I’ll see that people I know have liked it meaning they watched it and actively were like, yeah, that’s true and saved it and those happen to be the same people that I talked to like, okay, I mean, that’s still probably indirect. I’m like, okay, so there’s some awareness but at the same time just being a teenager in, you know, the United States. There’s that sort of like there’s still that car culture and that just expectation that at some point you’re going to be, you know, driving around with your friends late at night speeding down the highway and it’s like all fun and I’m sure that some people would see removing highways as just getting rid of that experience altogether, which I don’t think so, but you know, there could be just as teenagers is probably opposing views.
[00:32:44] Ian: Yeah, I wonder how different that like the specific conversation about removing I-94. I wonder how that different that would be if you and your classmates actually lived next to I-94 because like, yeah, exactly like I went to school at Central High School and, you know, like the part of 35W that goes through South Minneapolis, like I never think about that. I never thought about like that part of town because I just never visited. So I could see I could see it being kind of a little bit more abstract when we’re talking about this part of I-94 that, you know, potentially like you and your friends, you know, who live near Washburn like, you know, it’s St. Paul, like who even thinks about St. Paul?
[00:33:30] Thomas: Yeah, it’s far away. Right. And we do have 35W going straight through here and I know so many people who live on the other side of it. You have to cross it every day and that’s just normal. And I’m like,
[00:33:43] Ian: But like, but like that’s a great conversation to have right there. That’s like, okay, we’re talking about I-94 here, but imagine if we were doing that in our neighborhood, like how much easier it would be to walk to school, right?
[00:33:57] Thomas: Exactly.
[00:33:57] Ian: The problem is that that’s not part of the conversation.
[00:34:00] Thomas: Yeah, exactly. And 35W was a neighborhood too. And I feel like a lot of people don’t really realize that, but it totally was. And there’s pictures of it beforehand just being leveled. Like, geez, would hate to have that happen for our neighborhoods. because I mean, it’s like they wanted, but they didn’t for, you know, racial reasons, which kind of sucks.
[00:34:23] Ian: Mm-hmm. Now, we touched briefly on some of the specific projects that you’ve been and organizations that you’ve been involved with. I know that you mentioned that you got in touch with somebody from MnDOT and got to meet with them. You’ve been working with Our Streets a little bit. So yeah, talk a little bit more about that. Like, what does it mean for a high schooler to have a meeting with MnDOT?
[00:34:49] Thomas: Yeah, it was, I felt, I felt very like, whoa, this is like a very adult thing. And I’m just a kid. So I thought that was,
[00:34:58] Ian: I would have been intimidated too.
[00:34:59] Thomas: Cool. Yeah. I was like, you know what? I’m here. I kind of embraced this. I made a nice presentation for them. And they, they really seemed to take me seriously, which I was not at all expecting. And I thought that was awesome. It was, meeting with Our Streets was a lot more like, they weren’t even like, you know, some kid is coming in to present. We should give them our attention. They’re just like, cool, a new member. Let’s do this. It was very much like, you’re just one of them at that point. And I thought that was really awesome and welcoming. And just meeting in January with Connie from MnDOT, you know, he told me a bunch of cool stuff and he was really, you know, sympathetic with what I was talking about. And then I also did MnDOT’s Youth Leadership Program in February to March. Yeah, that was, for most of it was more about just getting people to want to join MnDOT for construction jobs and engineering jobs, that sort of thing. But really the first and last two meetings were about I-94 and the alternatives. And I was like very clear, like, why aren’t we doing at grade? And I got a bunch of people in the, all the other students, I got a bunch of them to kind of be on board with me. So when we did presentations at the end, I had my friend who also did an at grade presentation. Like, you know, that was, I did one. And then another kid did one about just how suburban commuters seem to be getting priority over people living in the actual area. And then just others that touched upon how highways aren’t really the best. And I wonder if that made a difference or not. Cause you bring in a bunch of kids and some of them were just like, yeah, I want to get a construction job at MnDOT and we’re just there for completely different reasons. I’m like, cool, awesome. And then some of us were like, you know, what are you guys doing? You should probably, like, why is MnDOT doing this? So, yeah, it was, it was an experience. It was a really good one, a bit boring at times, but the first and last meetings were, it was about the alternatives. I was, I was really motivated and tried my best.
[00:37:05] Ian: Nice. And then with the our streets, like just feeling like you were just another member all of a sudden, you know, what is like, what kinds of volunteer stuff did did our streets, have you doing like, were you going out door knocking with them? Were you like?
[00:37:21] Thomas: Yes, I did quite a bit of door knocking. Nice. That’s, that was probably my favorite activity, especially there’s this one guy named Nick and he’s super nice and super awesome and just talking with him is just like, they know what I mean. They know what I’m talking about. It was awesome to not have to explain stuff. I could just say like a term and they just get it. So just hours of doing that, some were, you know, in the winter and then the summer one’s really nice. And we had a decent amount of people answer their doors. And those who did were actually like, yeah, I’m going to be for kind of sucks and I’d be open to this. And what men that’s doing isn’t really good. Like we’re kind of telling her about that. Some people had no idea what’s going on and other people already knew. And it was very nice to kind of tell people about it.
[00:38:07] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. That’s really the power of door knocking, isn’t it? Like just starting that conversation, getting people aware of the issue in the first place.
[00:38:16] Thomas: Yeah. And then for those who didn’t answer, we put in just papers with just about stuff, just really brief, nice visuals. So it actually looks like it’s something you’d want to read.
[00:38:27] Ian: Right. Yeah.
00:38:27
Thomas: So even, even if you didn’t talk, hopefully spreading the word a little bit.
[00:38:31] Ian: Yeah. And I mean, the rethinking I-94, the Twin Cities Boulevard project, the renderings that our streets has come out with is the best example.
[00:38:43] Thomas: They’re so pretty.
00:38:43
Ian: And it’s like presenting a positive vision instead of just saying the negative of like this highway sucks. Like having already made like this is what it could look like is so powerful. And I haven’t seen any other like a better example of that strategy than when our streets came out with their, with their proposal.
[00:39:08] Thomas: There’s this one guy who answered who he like, he admitted to us after our conversation that he was like pretty conservative and he was, but because I think it was probably because of that visual. He’s like, even though I’m like conservative, like this looks awesome. And it seems like, like why wouldn’t I want this? I could, I can still drive if I wanted, but I could also go walk to a new restaurant or something and more people get to have houses. It’s like, what’s the downside? And I’m like, exactly, exactly. So it felt really good to see that. And I feel like the visuals definitely played a part there because you can see how great it looks. Yeah.
[00:39:43] Ian: Now let’s shift into talking about, you know, some of the, the not so great parts of advocacy, right? Sometimes you don’t get what you wanted. You put in a ton of work. You, you put all this energy and you pour your heart out and sometimes like the outcome that you wanted just didn’t come to pass. So what keeps you optimistic so that you can keep advocating?
[00:40:12] Thomas: Well, yeah, I can definitely relate to that just because, you know, even at this point at grade is still not on the table by Mindaad. And I think, you know, there’s just been a growing shift to like, especially with the Trump administration, it’s like, well, funding for kind of really anything, unless we make drastic EI changes, isn’t going to happen. So, you know, it’s been, there’s just been a lot more added into it. And it does feel like, oh, great. I spent all that time and not much really happened. But at the same time, I’m like, you know, they know, they know what people want. They know what people my age want. They know what our streets wants. And the message has been sent. And I’m always thankful for the part that I played in that and hope to continue it. But yeah, I can very much understand what you’re saying on that struggle there.
[00:41:03] Ian: And that’s like, I don’t want to be patronizing here, but like, you know, you’re young, you haven’t seen as many of these like fights so far, right?
[00:41:12] Thomas: Exactly. Yeah. I have one, one to my name. So we’ll take time.
[00:41:18] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we’ll wear you down. I hope not. Yeah. I hope that you keep up the energy.
[00:41:30] Thomas: Yeah. Gotta keep that fight spirit.
[00:41:32] Ian: What are your plans like after high school? Do these advocacy experiences factor into that at all?
[00:41:39] Thomas: I wouldn’t say so. I want to live in a place that actually has good public transit and I can bike and I can walk places. So anywhere rural is off the table and city some belt cities are certainly off the table. But it’s a it’s a much narrow, narrow list when you look at the United States. Yeah. I mean, I will say Europe. But yeah.
[00:42:01] Ian: Like I went to college in Morris, Minnesota, right, which is very rural.
[00:42:05] Thomas: Oh, yeah.
[00:42:08] Ian: But everything in town is a five minute bike right away. So it was like, Oh, it’s a perfect place to live without a car. As long as like they used to have a shuttle that came back to the Twin Cities every weekend. They don’t operate that anymore. But like, you know, when that existed, it was like, Oh, this is kind of like a car free heaven. So I would say don’t don’t like just blanket discount all rural areas.
[00:42:35] Thomas: There might be some that there’s some it’s more just my general preference to live in a much larger city. But yeah, I know there are some really underrated rural areas that have awesome. So it’s like nice, it’s walkable because it’s just not even worth it to build all this car infrastructure when you have an existing small town from the 1800s.
[00:42:53] Ian: Right, right. Yeah. The the one stoplight town as they say. And how about like, I mean, you’re only in 11th grade, so you don’t have to have like a career locked in. But you know, have you thought about that kind of thing?
[00:43:10] Thomas: I have because I’ve always been interested in just technology and computer science. But at the same time, I see the job market for that. Well, um, oh boy. So it’s always been, you know, urban planning and stuff like that that I have a genuine interest in is not a bad second option. And maybe it’s something I actually have to consider as what I would do. But at this point, I, I don’t know. And I, I’m still studying computer science stuff. And until it really becomes apparent, I’ll keep on that path. But it’s certainly something I’ll keep doing when I can. And just in addition, because it’s awesome. And I like it.
[00:43:51] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. And I assume that you are going to be interested in like, you know, when you’re in college connecting with other college students for like advocacy work and
[00:44:00] Thomas: Oh yeah. And if there isn’t a club already making one would be something I might do.
[00:44:06] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. You do seem to have that, you know, the go-getter attitude for, for starting something.
[00:44:12] Thomas: Yeah. I’ll be out there holding this sign like, Hey, doing this club. It’s pretty cool.
[00:44:18] Ian: Any other thoughts on anything that I didn’t ask about?
[00:44:22] Thomas: How do you get more people involved in this sort of thing? Because I’ve found that it’s, you kind of have to have a pre-existing passion to really get people to get to join. And I’ve tried and it doesn’t really work. Yeah. Maybe that’s just me.
[00:44:38] Ian: I think when we’re talking about like, like students and like a school community, it can be really helpful to find something that’s like specific, small and specific to that local area, you know, um, I have a friend who like her kids go to Lyndale, um, elementary school. And so like they worked really hard. Yeah, they worked really hard to get a, um, I forget what they called it, but you know, like, like a specific time of day right at the end of school where it was like, no cars are allowed on the streets that are like directly adjacent to the school. So that like, oh, okay.
[00:45:16] Thomas: So then 34th, Grand, 33rd and Pleasant.
[00:45:19] Ian: Yeah. I don’t remember. I think Grand probably was not, I think it was 34th, like the side of 34th that is adjacent to the school. Especially because there’s a thing that blocks the road. So it’s really, yeah. So they had like a car free kind of, you know, pickup time and area. And that was like, yeah. And they like, you know, had kind of a party there, uh, at the end of school every day, um, as all the kids are coming out and finding their parents and whatever. Um, and so like, like that piece of like hyper local, hyper specific, uh, uh, advocacy work is something that like at an elementary school, the parents have to be the ones driving that change, right? But like at a high school or a college, you know, the students can definitely be a big part of like identifying something that would be, you know, a positive impact for the school community. And then like convincing administrators and parents and, you know, to get on board with it. So I don’t know exactly what that looks like at Washburn. Uh, you know, thinking about the streets that are right around there. I mean, you know, 50th gets pretty like crazy at the end of school.
[00:46:30] Thomas: I wonder if that, uh, there’s like, you know, that those buttons that you press, the beg buttons to, you know, flash those lights across the street. There is one of those, uh, on 50th Street. And I wonder if that’s there because of just students asking for it. It’s been there the entire time I’ve been at Washburn. So I don’t know, but it would make a lot of sense cause 50th Street is very busy and it has those blind curves that cars come speeding around.
[00:46:54] Ian: Yeah. That might have come from like, um, you know, there’s a specific safe routes to school initiative that has like state funding behind it. Um, so I wonder, I wonder if that was a Safe Routes to School projects. Yeah.
[00:47:07] Thomas: Yeah. I really wouldn’t know, but I also, I also love seeing the city buses come to Washburn and just, they bring a ton of people to school and I’m like, Oh my gosh, that could have been so many cars. Thank goodness. Especially Washburn doesn’t have a big parking lot because it was built before cars.
[00:47:22] Ian: Yeah. Washburn has such a parking problem that they, uh, they started putting cars up on the roof. For listeners who have no idea what I’m referencing, there was a group of seniors last year who, uh, dismantled an old car, uh, and then snuck it in piece by piece and reassembled it on the roof as their senior prank. Uh, so.
[00:47:46] Thomas: That was so awesome. I don’t know how my class is ever supposed to beat that because you just can’t pop that. Right?
[00:47:53] Ian: Yeah. All right. Thomas, thanks for coming on the show.
[00:47:56] Thomas: Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. I know this was multiple months in the making.
[00:48:00] Ian: And thank you for joining us for this episode of the Streets.mn Podcast. The show is released under a Creative Commons attribution, non-commercial, non-derivative license. So feel free to republish the episode as long as you are not altering it and you are not profiting from it. The music in this episode is by Erik Brandt and the Urban Hillbilly Quartet. This episode was hosted and edited by me, Ian R. Buck, and was transcribed by Parker Seaman, aka Strongthany. We’re always looking to feature new voices on the Streets.mn Podcast. So if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [[email protected]]. We’re especially interested in covering activism on college campuses. So if you are involved in that, please reach out. Streets.mn is a community publication and relies on contributions from audience members like you. If you can make a one-time or recurring donation, you can find more information about doing so at [https://streets.mn/donate]. Find other listeners and discuss this episode on your favorite social media platform using the hashtag #StreetsMNPodcast. Until next time, take care.