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Transit to Trails With Sierra Club

Access to outdoor spaces is essential to everyone’s well-being, so it comes as no surprise that Sierra Club is supporting legislation to improve transit access to parks and trails. Join us as we chat with Joshua Houdek, Senior Program Manager for Land Use and Transportation at Sierra Club North Star Chapter, about it.

Links

An unfolded copy of the Great Transit Trips to Parks guide produced by Sierra Club in 2012. It lists many parks with information on what routes to use to get there.
Front side of the Great Transit Trips to Parks guide.
A map with many insets showing parks in the Twin Cities, with nearby transit stops marked.
Back side of the Great Transit Trips to Parks guide.

Attributions

Our theme song is Tanz den Dobberstein, and our interstitial song is Puck’s Blues. Both tracks used by permission of their creator, Erik Brandt. Find out more about his band, The Urban Hillbilly Quartet, on their website.

This episode was produced by Stina Neel, and was hosted and edited by Ian R Buck. Many thanks to Joshua Houdek for coming on the show. We’re always looking to feature new voices on the show, so if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [email protected].

Transcript

[00:00:00] Ian: Welcome to the Streets.mn Podcast, the show where we highlight how transportation and land use can make our communities better places. Coming to you from beautiful Seward, Minneapolis, Minnesota, I am your host, Ian R Buck. We love taking transit on fun adventures, particularly to outdoors destinations. As it turns out, the local Sierra Club chapter has been doing work for a long time to make that easier, and at the national level there is legislation in the works to fund transit access to parks and trails. Producer Stina Neel connected us with Joshua Houdak from Sierra Club North Star chapter.

[00:00:41] Stina: what is Sierra Club North Star Chapter, what is your job title, and what do you do?

[00:00:47] Joshua: The Sierra Club Minnesota North Star Chapter is 50, 000, members and supporters across the state. Sierra Club is the oldest and largest grassroots environmental advocacy organization in the country, and we’re a very active, Minnesota chapter of the organization.

My title is Senior Program Manager for Land Use and Transportation at the Minnesota Chapter. I’m going on 19 and a half years in that capacity, more or less at the Sierra club. So hence the senior in my title.

[00:01:25] Ian: Yeah. So you’re the Streets.mn audience’s best pal.

[00:01:32] Stina: So today we’re talking about Transit to Trails specifically. can you give us a brief history? I know that it was previously called transit to green space. give us the low down.

[00:01:46] Joshua: So, as I mentioned, Sierra Club is a grassroots organization made up of a lot of volunteers and passionate members.

we’ve had the Sprawl Committee, that, advocated for protecting green space in the suburbs and exurbs, high valued natural resource areas that were getting gobbled up by growth and development. closely connected to that work is also Transportation, how we get from place to place,

one of our volunteers, one of the founders of what is now the Sierra Club’s Land Use and Transportation Team, previously Sprawl Committee, is Deb Alper. And Deb came up with this idea of marrying our work on green space preservation with transit. Part of Sierra Club’s mission is to preserve, the outdoors,

And get more people outside. We have a robust outings program and backing up a little bit. My background, actually, I came to Minnesota over 20. Plus years ago, to get my master’s in what I joke is camping. Uh, I have a master’s degree in outdoor education and recreation. my undergrad is in geography.

So I have a background in getting people outside. It’s transformational. Outdoor access provides numerous physical and mental benefits. But a major barrier sometimes is, access to these places, even a local park. Developing a program to access green spaces and researching which ones can you actually get to with existing systems and services like Metro Transit was our first, endeavor.

So we called it Transit to Green Space. And we. I even brought it. You can’t see it here, our listeners, but, a paper fold out map.

[00:03:43] Ian: We might include some pictures of this.

[00:03:45] Joshua: Oh, excellent. And we actually organized outings, where we would take the bus in most cases, sometimes the train to these different places and recreate, whether it was a walk or a hike in the summertime or hauling our cross country skis or snowshoes, in the wintertime to enjoy the outdoors and get there via green transport, not burning carbon, to get to and from green spaces.

[00:04:10] Ian: Yeah.

[00:04:11] Joshua: So that’s, the long winded answer to our transit to local transit to green space initiative. what’s exciting now is there’s actually federal. legislation being proposed called transit to trails that would fund more transit either to these places or within them.

Think about national parks and all the congestion in them. we can get into that later.

[00:04:36] Ian: So yeah, why is access to nature so important? You touched a little bit on, getting our fix of, being in green spaces, but why do we care about that so much? Why is that as important as getting people to and from their nine to five jobs?

[00:04:49] Stina: And what does it mean to folks that are in underserved and underrepresented groups in the recreation industry?

[00:04:56] Joshua: We know, it’s documented, that there are many benefits to being outside. even 20 minutes a day spent at a local park helps kids concentrate better in school. But not everyone’s privileged enough to have access to that.

To that local park and, uh, people of color, low income families and cities, not just here in the, the Twin Cities, but across the country, are significantly less likely to live near a park or green space. So access to what is available is, is just so important. And I’ll also add that Sierra Club knows, like other organizations that work on environmental issues, that when there’s an experience or connection to the outdoors. It’s kind of the first step towards working to protect those places. And we know that there’s less and less exposure to fresh air and green spaces. And more and more exposure to screens and closed in spaces. So this is just chipping away at that.

[00:06:03] Ian: Josh, you’re trying to take away the kid’s smartphones.

Is that the kind of dad you are?

[00:06:08] Joshua: If they’re on a bus on their way to transit, maybe they can get another few minutes on it, but yeah.

[00:06:14] Stina: Take photos with their smart devices at the locations and then share with their friends how easy it was to get there via transit. This is the dream.

[00:06:24] Joshua: Full disclosure. I have a 12 going on 18 year old daughter and, she just got her first phone two weeks ago. we held off. She’s the last one in her class, I think.

[00:06:36] Stina: how did you get started with the transit to trails initiatives? locally as well as the broad legislation at the national level?

[00:06:48] Joshua: As I mentioned, my background is in outdoor education and recreation. I have a passion for getting people outdoors. one of my first experiences with the local Sierra Club chapter before I was hired as staff was participating in their annual, bicycle tour, formerly known as the Tour de Sprawl, I appreciated how, using an outdoor experience like that, as a tool to talk about issues, and learn more about, opportunities and solutions, was really valuable.

So I’ve always been interested in, intersectional issues or intersectional, opportunities like this. it was natural that when, volunteers came up with this idea of transit to green space, it was a great, project for us to take on.

part of that work also involved talking to Metro Transit, the main service provider, ironically, that is a service provided by the Metropolitan Council, which also manages the regional parks, program. So getting, different staffers talking to each other about how, one part of a mega, governmental body could, support another, part was, part of this work at the very beginning.

things like. putting on the website of the regional parks, how they could be accessed, by bus, not just having parking information we’ve come a long way with Google Maps and everything else.

[00:08:27] Ian: Now that you bring up all these different departments of the Metropolitan Council, like supporting each other, it, reminded me that Transit Link, which is separate from Metro Transit, but it is also a service as a Metropolitan Council.

Like one of their rules is literally no camping equipment. You cannot carry camping equipment with you on Transit Link buses, which seems Way out of line, absurd. Yes.

[00:08:51] Stina: you do have to, they don’t look in your bags.

[00:08:56] Ian: I’m saying it’s probably a rule that is not enforced a whole lot, but the value that is being expressed through the existence of this rule is preposterous to me.

[00:09:05] Joshua: And there are regional parks that you can camp. Carver Park Reserve, was where, I camped after I got married, at another regional park. That was in the New York Times, by the way.

[00:09:18] Ian: Nothing of this is surprising about you.

[00:09:20] Stina: This is really sweet.

[00:09:22] Joshua: "My green wedding," Google it.

[00:09:25] Stina: The first episode that we ever worked on together was a biking camping one.

that was also one of our first dates.

[00:09:34] Joshua: Oh

That’s wonderful. It’s really cute.

Yes. That is special.

[00:09:38] Stina: to Carver Park Reserve. And that was my first bike camping place. I think it’s a lot of people’s first bike camping experience because it’s so accessible.

It’s on trails. there’s just a lot of amenities there.

Speaking

It seems like it was maybe not as difficult to have Metro Transit work with the parks department because they’re all under the Met Council umbrella. What about all of the other transit agencies, and I’m talking specifically within the Twin Cities greater metro area?

How’s that going? How did it go?

[00:10:14] Joshua: I’ll be honest. It didn’t go super well with Metro Transit and the Met Council, because, no surprise, everyone is siloed, Before we got Metro Transit, a boatload of money in 2023 with the Transportation Omnibus Bill that provided new stable long term funding for transit in the Twin Cities.

Metro Transit is really focused on growing ridership, and this is long before COVID, It was, it’s all about commuting. and getting some people out in the suburbs and exurbs, into other forms of transportation for their commutes. So it was, kind of a bottom priority, if you will.

But there’s little things that can be done. Like I said, updating websites, signage, we’ve talked to. Fort Snelling and Minnehaha regional Park about signage. that’s one of the most transit accessible parks in the country. with the blue line and the a line, bus, rapid transit, and other bus service.

it’s pretty incredible. I’m sure the percentage of people arriving and, departing, this regional gem that we have in the Twin Cities by transit is, minimal, but people don’t really think about that as even an option. And so with basic low cost stuff like signage.

[00:11:51] Ian: one of the stuff, like two of the stops on the Blue Line are literally named after like the parks that they’re right next to.

[00:11:58] Joshua: Exactly. Yeah. a lot can be done on those buses and trains, to kind of just seed the idea in people’s minds. and even at the airport, people could get off and see the falls before when they head downtown, uh, for their.

You know,

[00:12:16] Ian: whatever convention they’re here for exactly. Yeah. So one thing that I think of with the opt out transit providers, is they have innovated in a few ways that now Metro Transit is following suit specifically I’m thinking of micro transit, right and we’ve used MVTA connect to Go to Lebanon Hills Park. we took a fixed route to the zoo Yep, and then camped at the campsite that’s near near the zoo and then we managed to you know hike all the way to the opposite end of the park and Because we didn’t have like a vehicle that we had to go back for We picked up an MVTA connect at the other end and that brought us back to, whatever fixed route service was going to take us home.

how do you feel we’ve progressed, over the years in terms of access to trails right now?

[00:13:08] Joshua: I think to some extent, the biggest way we progressed Sadly, isn’t to the credit of any transit provider, but it’s just technology with, the apps that are in everyone’s pockets, with mapping, technology. Because you think about it, parks don’t have a grand entrance, especially when you’re talking about trails.

it used to be really. Difficult to figure out if something was reachable, by transit, with the mapping, tools that we have and transit apps and whatnot, that that’s gone away, that, that, that barrier. as far as like, are there more parks and trails accessible to transit than when we pioneered this work, Nearly 20 years ago.

I honestly don’t know the answer to that. I would be skeptical.

[00:13:57] Ian: Somebody needs to do a big report on that. Right. Right. Right. They do all their

[00:14:00] Joshua: research. Yes. I’m optimistic that there is more, because We’ve added service over the years, even though it got scaled back, COVID, but, And like you said, the, the, the links the opt outs, and the dial-a-rides, you know, also provide that to, which we haven’t talked about as much, but yeah.

[music]

[00:14:24] Ian: So just to highlight some of our favorite hiking destinations here in the Twin Cities that are available by transit. Um, Stina, you and I have personal experience with a few of these. Some of them are like aspirational future possibilities, right?

[00:14:41] Stina: Right.

[00:14:43] Ian: Um, so we, we talked about Lebanon Hills with MVTA Connect, um, another.

Park that’s accessible via MVTA Connect is the Murphy-Hanrehan Park Reserve.

[00:14:54] Stina: Is that down by Prior Lake?

[00:14:56] Ian: Yeah. Um, ooh. They, I’ve, I’ve been to a Randonneuring ride that started and ended there. But I haven’t spent much time in the park itself.

[00:15:05] Stina: Randonneuring as in our "riding far with friends" episode. Yes. Yep.

[00:15:10] Ian: The very same. But they have mountain biking at that park. I believe they’ve got some hiking options as well.

[00:15:18] Stina: And it’s Three Rivers Park District, so you know that is gonna be a high class experience.

[00:15:22] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:15:23] Stina: What about, do you remember the time we went to Hyland Park to do some hiking?

[00:15:27] Ian: Oh, Hyland with a Y? Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm.

[00:15:31] Stina: And that one was great for hiking and we saw a lot of their, um, the areas that they use for cross-country skiing, so that’s an option. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The winter time.

[00:15:41] Ian: The, the bus did drop me off far enough away that I brought my folding bike on the bus. Mm-hmm. Just to make it a little bit quicker to get to the park. Um, but it wasn’t too bad. Yeah.

[00:15:52] Stina: I wonder if you could, if it would drop you off Right. On a cross country ski trail. Wouldn’t that be fun?

[00:15:56] Ian: That would be very fun.

[00:15:59] Stina: Um, and another one that I have written down is the Minnesota River Valley Wildlife Refuge. That is a pretty massive park, and it’s right at one of the stops for the blue line.

[00:16:10] Ian: Yes. It’s, um, American Boulevard Stop Just after-

[00:16:15] Stina: the airport. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that is fast, frequent, and it is what a quarter mile away from.

[00:16:24] Ian: Right. I think it’s close. The trailhead, I think it’s closer to that station than Fort Snelling Park. Mm-hmm. Is to the Fort Snelling station for Snelling, which, which is kind of ironic.

Yeah. Um, another one that I, I wish was like… it’s, it’s feasible, but I wish it was better is Carver Park Reserve because Southwest Prime will drop you off like a 15 minute hike from the campsite. But also Southwest Prime just takes forever to pick you up anywhere. Right, because their service area is just too big.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:17:00] Stina: Yes. There’s lots of options and I mean. With good funding, we can always add more. Mm-hmm. Indeed. Hiking, hiking, availability within the Twin Cities.

[00:17:09] Ian: Mm-hmm. All right. Let’s hear some more from Josh.

[00:17:12] Stina: Okay.

[music]

[00:14:23] Stina: So maybe we can talk a little bit about the legislation that is on the books. I didn’t

[00:14:27] Joshua: quite get your question with that. Yeah.

[00:14:30] Stina: so what is it? We’ll start there.

[00:14:34] Joshua: Sure. So it’s, the Transit to Trails Act. this is an act, in Congress, that seeks to increase access to nature for underserved communities by creating and expanding public transportation.

it’s, House File 3092, if you want to look it up, or Senate File 1440 in this present Congress, which was. We’ll be changing soon, but I am very, pleased to say that, our, Minneapolis, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar and on the, on the other side of the river, St. Paul, Congresswoman Betty McCollum are both co sponsors in the House of this legislation.

What it does, or would What we would do is create a small grant program that any municipality, any government agency could, apply for, to improve, transit either to or within, a park or green space. going back to what you were talking about earlier, with congestion in some of our iconic national parks, where it’s bumper to bumper traffic, during high season, actually providing, shuttle services and, transit service, within, a big park like that, or when we’re talking Twin Cities, for example, transit access.

um, vehicles, you know, to that park because there’s lots of problems. There’s congestion I just mentioned, with pollution, and all the environmental, impacts caused by traffic congestion and people driving mostly single occupancy vehicles within these places. But there’s parking problems, dare I bring up the P word.

pollution in general. then of course the big, equity and access issues.

[00:16:26] Ian: Yeah.

[00:16:27] Joshua: So.

[00:16:31] Stina: I’m trying to think where to go.

[00:16:32] Joshua: Well, so it’s just, really fun to see. A program that was pioneered here in homegrown Minnesota and now, we can’t take credit for this legislation that was introduced in Congress, but we are looked at here in flyover country as, kind of seeding this federal, initiative, which is kind of fun.

we’re looked at. across the country , as, uh, model for this. I will bring up that the Bay Area in, California, has a robust transit to trails program. we met with them, when they started developing this, many years ago. They’re looking at, providing access to, the massive, urban, area of the, of, of San Francisco, many, much larger percentage of, of residents that don’t have vehicles there and, accessing the Sierras, and trailheads.

their service is more about how you get people from the city to these incredible trailheads to go hiking, whether it’s in the foothills or way up in the mountains. initially we had issues with figuring out how to get to a park because there’s no main entrance.

A trailhead is a succinct, location. So, in a way they had a. Challenge ahead of them to provide that.

[00:17:54] Ian: Transit becomes a very obvious solution for that Because a lot of these trailheads because it’s not a grand entrance. It’s like well, there isn’t a huge parking facility right there Right, you know, yes.

Yeah,

[00:18:06] Joshua: exactly

[00:18:08] Ian: Like I’m thinking about, in Portland, they have a shuttle that goes from town and goes in a straight line out along the Columbia River Gorge. And there’s several trail heads along the way that like, you know, you can hop on, hop off, like do however many hikes you want to before you catch the return trip.

Yep.

[00:18:25] Joshua: Yeah. it’s great. I’m sure they allow camping equipment on.

[00:18:31] Stina: I lived in Colorado for five years, so Estes Park was right there, watching the development of the shuttles throughout Rocky Mountain National Park, they make it so easy. Like, the buses don’t have numbers, it just tells you the names of the trails that it’s going to go to, and you know that it’s in a loop, they really don’t provide, I mean, you could get a map if you really tried, but you don’t need to.

once you get to Estes Park, the town. You’re good, and I feel like those big destinations where people are gonna be recreating for a long time, right? These aren’t just a quick 30 minute hike.

[00:19:08] Joshua: Yes.

[00:19:09] Stina: These are like many day adventures. It’s so much easier for developing a transit system for that specific thing.

Whereas here, We have lots and lots of parks. Sure. You might spend an entire day at Afton skiing and hiking and whatever, but we don’t have a lot of locations where you’re going to hang out for days. Maybe the North shore. We’ll talk to Duluth.

[00:19:40] Ian: Yeah. It depends on what your goals are.

[00:19:42] Joshua: That’s actually come up too with the Northern Lights Express is, you know, well that Duluth is such a jumping point as you just mentioned to the entire North Shore and what can be done to improve access outside of Duluth, for folks that want to take that trip. on a passenger rail someday.

[00:20:03] Ian: So I feel like I do have to bring up the elephant in the room. we’re recording this a couple of days after the election. How likely do you think it is that we’re going to get Transit to Trails anytime soon within the next four years, say?

[00:20:21] Joshua: Well, uh, I will say that, we’re in a much better space than we were before 2023 with funding for our, backbone transit services locally here in the Twin Cities, um, so, you know, there’s a lot of federal pots of money for transit, obviously, that could Go away, with this new administration that will be coming on board, sadly enough, in January or February. Metro Transit is rolling out bus rapid transit routes and, expanding and improving service and safety, because they can now, their hands were tied for over a decade.

we fixed that problem. I’m pleased to say, so locally we should be in better shape for that.

[00:21:12] Ian: But there’s a lot of other transit agencies in Minnesota outside of the Twin Cities. There are. There’s transit agencies across the country that, would benefit from this,

[00:21:20] Joshua: Yeah.

We have over 80 counties, in Minnesota. all but, five or six of them have some sort of transit service. that’s all funded through MnDOT, mostly, our Department of Transportation. and, there’s a lot of challenges there. Sierra Club, supports, the Minnesota, uh, Public Transit, uh, MIPTA, Minnesota Public Transit Association, I believe it is.

Because. Transit isn’t just needed, in the Twin Cities, but everywhere, in a lot of areas in greater Minnesota, it’s, transit looks like a dial-a-ride, right? and, there’s a lot of challenges there. a lot of those drivers are volunteers and don’t get reimbursed for their, travel to and from wherever they pick up their bus.

so, there, there’s just a lot of, a lot of challenges, and, aging population too, especially in greater Minnesota. the need is growing. but the funding is not there.

[00:22:24] Stina: We, we have a lot of, we’re very familiar with the dial-a-ride services in some of the rural counties.

We went on a bike tour for a chunk of the Minnesota River. We were following it on the bike and we took the train north.

[00:22:43] Ian: To get to the start of where we wanted our bike. Then we took the

[00:22:47] Stina: bus and we’re in St. Cloud and then we have to leapfrog between. some County agencies, and then they stop at the County line basically.

So then we unload our stuff bike to the next town and get on another one. it was just one whole day of going from St. Cloud to the beginning of our journey. we met some incredible drivers and you can tell they really love it. And now hearing that a lot of them don’t get paid, like.

It’s kind of, I’m going to get a little teary because they just love what they do and they love getting people where they need to go. And they did talk about how we were probably the youngest riders that they were going to see all week, all month. we also, we had an episode recently where we talked about physical accessibility in a Minnesota department of natural resources.

and our friend, Sherry, friend of the pod,

[00:23:43] Ian:

[00:23:43] Stina: tried out one of their track chairs and we were talking about if you didn’t drive, how would you get from Minneapolis to Fort Snelling? And you have mobility needs because that bus or that train station isn’t right there, right? Yeah. you do have a little ways

So even just that last mile can be so

[00:24:08] Joshua: crucial. Sure.

[00:24:09] Ian: let’s say that we get the federal funding, And Metro Transit and other transit agencies in the Twin Cities, in Minnesota have access to more money. what would you want to see them implementing to improve?

Access to green spaces.

[00:24:24] Joshua: I think one great example is, Minnehaha falls, You know, you got different access there. We should be able to get more people to our regional parks, our local natural treasures, so I think there’s an opportunity there.

with funding we could be creative with, another, incredible national park in our backyard in the Twin Cities, which is, of course, is in this Minnesota. River, MNRRA, Minnesota National River and Recreation Area, I believe it’s, and, and how can we get, better access to that too.

I think there’s, you know, great trails and, and bike trails. access, to a lot of it and that’s improving dramatically. Another project that Sierra Club’s, working on is, extending the Midtown Greenway over the Mississippi River. not only to get west to east across the river, but think of being on that short line bridge over the Mississippi River.

Deepest gorge of the entire Mississippi River. the natural, experience that would provide too. I’m excited for this Transit Trails initiative because, it can help seed opportunities, Not only in the Twin Cities, but across the country. There’s such a need, Especially in our big national parks, but also in our cities we actually have Decent access to a lot of the park. We have so much green space in in in the Twin Cities Which is amazing a lot of cities across the country don’t have The incredible parks and trails, systems that, that we have here, and, transit to trails act can, can help, other parts of the country.

even more so than, here, it would be a small grant program that would be administered likely through the U. S. Department of Transportation. To improve, services, to, open spaces.

[00:26:33] Ian: A service that I would love to see is since Afton state park is the closest, Minnesota DNR camping facility that we have.

I would love to see a shuttle, like direct from downtown St. Paul, you over to Afton state park and back.

[00:26:48] Joshua: Yeah. maybe like a,

[00:26:49] Ian: a Thursday through Sunday kind of thing.

[00:26:51] Joshua: Yeah. and you got a downhill ski facility right there too. Mm-hmm . With Afton Alps. and yeah, like you said, it’s just so close, but

outside of reach for a lot of people too. For sure.

[00:27:03] Ian: since all of the camping spots, are hike in, the advantage that you get from driving to the facility is minimal at that point. it’s a perfect opportunity for transit to really shine as the obvious choice for how to get there.

[00:27:16] Joshua: when I first started at Sierra club, I also volunteered for, what was then called inner city outings, We changed the name, but it’s, you

[00:27:25] Ian: guys came up with such great names 20 years ago, delightful,

[00:27:30] Joshua: inspiring connections outdoors, same acronym, different words, is the name of the program now, we partner with different, agencies or, nonprofits that, work with youth, whether it be common bond communities to get.

kids outside. Afton is one of our favorite places to get kids outside. you get that far out of the city we don’t do too much camping, with the kids, but, we’ve done it before. one of the most incredible experiences I’ve ever had as an outdoor trip leader is hearing, what kids experience when they see the stars for the first time, because they’ve never been out of the light pollution that our cities, have.

[00:28:13] Ian: And that’s probably one of the. closest places that you can go where you’re not going to hear the traffic from a highway anymore. Yeah, that’s a good point. You know, I’ve gone camping at Lake Elmo Park Reserve and it’s still like, oh yeah, you can, hear 694.

[00:28:26] Joshua: Sound travels, especially, after leaves fall and stuff.

yes, exactly.

[00:28:30] Stina: I think sometimes we get a little jaded and forget that the Mississippi River is huge, right? And it’s right there. I’m a bit of a bird nerd. we have some of the best bird biodiversity anywhere in the country that I’ve ever been to.

There is, I mean, the birds use the Mississippi River essentially like a highway.

[00:28:49] Joshua: Yeah. It’s a flyway. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:52] Stina: And like even at Afton, like listening to birds, being out there, seeing other bird nerds, like there’s just something special.

[00:29:02] Ian: you find any species that you hadn’t found before?

[00:29:06] Stina: I’d have to look at my notes , but yeah, probably like, I mean, there’s so many warblers and they’re all out there warblin’ at the same time . But I think about like,

[00:29:16] Joshua: you need a bird bus?

[00:29:17] Stina: Busa birds like the Bloomington Ferry area.

[00:29:22] Joshua: in the Minnesota Valley Wildlife Refuge, right?

That is another national treasure.

[00:29:27] Stina: I mean, sometimes I drive near that area on my way to and from work. in the winter when that’s the only open water. There are probably hundreds of swans.

[00:29:37] Joshua: Incredible. Yeah.

[00:29:38] Stina: And to be able to. Take a bus and just go snowshoeing and see all the birds and then the stars start to come out Maybe you’ll see the northern lights.

Who knows?

[00:29:49] Joshua: Yeah,

[00:29:50] Stina: all of those things could be accessible So soon.

[00:29:54] Joshua: Mm

[00:29:54] Stina: So, what can people do what can listeners do whether they’re in Minnesota or beyond to try to get this passed?

[00:30:02] Joshua: They can talk to their Congress, to tell them about this legislation that’s, in Congress.

as I mentioned, uh, Congresswomen, uh, Uh, Ilhan Omar and Betty McCollum have already co sponsored here in the Twin Cities.

[00:30:18] Ian: Never hurts to thank them.

[00:30:19] Joshua: But it never hurts to thank them for that. and our, esteemed, United States Senators, Amy Klobuchar, newly reelected, and Tina Smith are not yet on, the Senate, file.

1440, uh, so, regardless of where you live in the United States, you can contact your, two United States senators and your, representative in Congress and asked them, to, to support and co sponsor the Transit to Trails Act. if you Google Sierra Club Transit to Trails, and scroll down on that page, you’ll find a convenient, click and send action alert, with more information and an easy way to email, your members of Congress.

[00:31:06] Stina: Yeah, you don’t have to just call them and talk to them. No. That’s very scary. Yeah. You can do a carefully worded email and add your own personal. Connections of what green spaces and parks mean to you?

[00:31:19] Joshua: Yes, they love that

[00:31:20] Stina: love when it has a little personal tidbit

[00:31:22] Joshua: a little personal tidbit.

But you know over the years i’ve gotten a lot more comfortable Calling because you’re never talking to anyone except a staffer, a staffer. Sure. Sure. though once in a blue moon You call a state representative or senator at the state level and they might pick up the phone. But, 99.9 percent of the time you’re either talking to a voicemail or, a staffer picks up a couple of sentences is all it really is.

[00:31:52] Ian: It doesn’t have to be a 60 minute podcast episode. It does

[00:31:54] Joshua: not, it does not. Sadly. Maybe send them the link as a follow up. For sure, but yes, like you said, a short story and why it’s important to you as a constituent goes a long way.

[00:32:07] Ian: we’ll include a link to that email form in the show notes Appreciate it.

[00:32:11] Joshua: Yep. Yeah.

[00:32:14] Stina: Do you want some fun ones? Do you want some fun questions? They’re a little light.

[00:32:17] Joshua: Shoot.

[00:32:18] Stina: do you have a recreational place that you would love to travel via transit that isn’t currently accessible by transit?

[00:32:24] Joshua: Oh, good one.

[00:32:26] Stina: anywhere in the state or U. S.

[00:32:28] Joshua: Anywhere in the state or the U. S. Sure. I lived in Colorado for, two years. I was on the Western slope in Grand Junction, "grand malfunction." Uh, but, uh, uh, and that, that’s where, I started my career in outdoor education running a small college’s outdoor program there.

I guess what I’m getting at is I love the mountains. so getting to some more bases of mountains. maybe Mount Rainier or something like that, would be on my list. Life is a mountain, not a beach. In my book.

[00:33:00] Stina: Ian, do you have one?

[00:33:03] Ian: Well, my question. We might

[00:33:04] Stina: as well go around. Right.

[00:33:05] Ian: I wish that getting to Lake Itasca was possible via transit. Partially because I just got myself a raft that I can carry on my bicycle. And so I am thinking again about, doing a Mississippi river, starting at the headwaters trip, which

I attempted 10 years ago, right after graduating from college and, would love to, revisit that now that I am more prepared.

[00:33:29] Joshua: Wow. That does sound like a great adventure. I would also answer the question with a better service up and down the North shore. Cause like I said earlier, especially with, you know, Northern Lights Express passenger rail in the pipeline, the logistics of hiking the Superior hiking trail, our Appalachian trail of the Midwest, can be a challenge with logistics of shuttles.

there is a private shuttle service that operates seasonally. I’ve used it. but it’s minimal. I think there could be better service up there. I haven’t explored what’s available via the counties.

[00:34:05] Ian: Yeah. I looked into Arrowhead transit and

they have like one trip a week from Grand Marais down to Duluth and back. It’s like, wow. I can’t make that work.

[00:34:16] Joshua: Exactly.

[00:34:17] Ian: How about you, Stina?

[00:34:18] Stina: I have dreamed about going to Isle Royale probably since I gave a presentation about it in middle school getting to the place where you get on the ferry, you have to drive.

That’s the only way to get up there really. your car sits and you go on a magical adventure. then you come back, get back in your car, and go home to real life. I don’t want that. I want to extend the magic a little bit. I think transit would help me get there.

[00:34:46] Ian: Mm hmm.

For sure. Nice.

[music]

[00:37:47] Ian: So let’s talk about some of the current transit opportunities in Greater Minnesota. Mm-hmm. That’ll get you to some camping opportunities, and of course. We’re not gonna be able to hit every single community that’s out there. Uh, but we, we’ve done a little research. Some of these, we also have some experience with.

Um, so Stina, what, what do we got going for us?

[00:38:09] Stina: Ooh, well, I wanna start off strong with what I consider a really good winner is Winona. Mm. So you can get to Sugar Loaf

[00:38:17] Ian: mm-hmm.

[00:38:18] Stina: And do some serious elevation change hiking. Oh yeah. And that’s on their red line.

[00:38:23] Ian: Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that’s fixed route service right there.

Mm-hmm. Right.

[00:38:28] Stina: And there’s a pretty sizable dial-a-ride area. That includes Garvin Heights City Park.

[00:38:35] Ian: Yep.

[00:38:36] Stina: So you don’t have to bike over that giant hill.

[00:38:37] Ian: Right. And, and once you’re in the city park, like the hiking is pretty level up there. Mm-hmm. But you get some great views mm-hmm. Of the whole river valley and everything, um, and, and the city below you and whatnot.

[00:38:47] Stina: Yeah. Um, another one that was a surprise winner for me is Brainerd. Mm-hmm. So the Brainerd Crow Wing area. Yep. They have a dial aide service that gets you all the way to Crosby. Crosby is right where the Cuyuna area. Yep. So great for mountain biking, but also good for people who enjoy water related. Mm-hmm.

Um, things so paddling and yeah. Mm-hmm. And

[00:39:13] Ian: so, yeah, I’m excited to try that out. I think this next summer with, uh, like taking Jefferson Lines up to Brainerd and then doing the dial-a-ride to get to. The recreation area. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:25] Stina: Probably one that I’m excited to see the future of is gonna be Rochester.

Mm-hmm. So Rochester just announced their new BRT service. That’s the first line outside of the metro area. It has a western terminus at Cascade Lake Park, where they’re currently building transit-oriented, park-oriented, mixed-use residential areas. Mm-hmm.

[00:39:48] Ian: Shout out to friend of the pod, Erik Noonan for uh, getting us that information.

[00:39:52] Stina: Mm-hmm. And the dial-a-ride system just got a pretty big bump in funding.

[00:39:58] Ian: Mm.

[00:39:59] Stina: So that might increase the likelihood of getting out of the Rochester area into some of those parks that are very close by.

[00:40:06] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:40:07] Stina: And then my last one is Mankato. So the Mankato area dial-a-ride service that does not include the city of Mankato.

[00:40:14] Ian: Right.

[00:40:14] Stina: But it is a massive three county service area. Which includes Minneopa State Park. Mm-hmm. That’s where you can see the bison.

[00:40:21] Ian: Yes.

[00:40:22] Stina: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:22] Ian: Which is like, it’s, it’s not that far outside of the city. So I would expect, even though it’s a dial-a-ride service, I would hope that it wouldn’t take very long for you to get from one place to another with that trip.

Yeah.

[00:40:35] Stina: Yeah. And with dial-a-ride services. Of course it is gonna require a little bit more planning. You might have to bring cash with you. Mm-hmm. Or you might have to be a little patient, so, you know, bring a snack.

[00:40:45] Ian: Right. And it, and you always have to kind of do your research on like, what are the parameters for scheduling within each dial-a-ride service.

Right. Because like, for example, MVTA Connect is. Conceptualized as a, an immediate thing. Like you can only schedule a trip that’s within the next 90 minutes or two hours or something like that. Right. Um, whereas if you’re taking, uh, Transit Link like all the way out to Afton State Park, that’s like you’re better off scheduling that seven days in advance.

Right. Um, so go research any of these systems that you’re about to use, for sure. Mm-hmm. Um, did you have stuff about Duluth?

[00:41:26] Stina: Oh, Duluth did not get a passing grade for me. So Duluth probably has maybe the biggest area of opportunity. Mm. There are so many state parks, just, you know, less than 30 minutes drive away from Duluth City.

Mm-hmm. And there just isn’t the transit access. You could get to Spirit Mountain, right? Mm-hmm. To do some skiing, but. Honestly, that was about it. There are no, none of the state parks are within their service area currently. Mm-hmm. So, Duluth, if you’re listening, we would love to take a field trip.

[00:42:06] Ian: Yeah, we have, we have some homework for you.

All right. Let’s, uh, let’s finish off this episode with Josh.

[00:42:12] Stina: Mm-hmm.

[music]

[00:34:49] Stina: And then, this is mostly inspired by the story map of Epic Trails and Epic Fails.

[00:34:56] Joshua: Yes.

[00:34:56] Stina: can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:34:58] Joshua: So that’s Sierra Club’s, way of lifting this whole issue up, right? And so we’ve contributed a little bit to this and anyone can,

Do the same. it’s an opportunity to share, epic fails of places you just described that are completely unaccessible or maybe they are, but, you know, the way they are served by transit is so poor. it’s worth telling that story, to, epic stories of. great places to go.

here’s one, most people listening to this, might know that, our empire builder can take you right to Glacier National Park. if you’re lucky, Park Ranger Rick might, board and give a little talk. So, you know, there, there’s incredible, ways to, to, to reach incredible places.

but it ain’t easy.

[00:35:52] Stina: And Amtrak just, they’re restarting a service. Where’s that?

[00:35:57] Ian: Are you talking about the one in Colorado that Ian was posting about? Yes. So, I think they are increasing the frequency of, how many days a week they run a train from Denver to Mountain.

[00:36:11] Joshua: Winter Park.

[00:36:12] Ian: Yes.

[00:36:13] Joshua: Yes. Yeah, that’s really exciting. and I think, incredible, service to provide. You know, there’s a lot of young people in Denver. I’ve done that drive, on I 70 or wherever.

[00:36:24] Stina: scary in the winter. It’s

[00:36:26] Joshua: awful in the winter, and having that service, to spend a day, skiing in the mountains and then be back home, at night, without having to drive is just fantastic convenience wise, you’re reducing, vehicle miles traveled, VMT, and, emissions and, and everything else.

So it’s good for the environment and it’s good for our bodies and health

[00:36:52] Ian: Win and win and win.

[00:36:53] Joshua: exactly.

[00:36:56] Stina: I think you alluded to this, that you’ve done quite a bit of taking transit to recreation opportunities. Do you have some favorites?

[00:37:05] Joshua: favorite trips,

[00:37:06] Stina: what was just easy and wonderful and made it worth it? Yeah.

[00:37:12] Joshua: Well, one of my favorite trips that, the Sierra Club organized. was on the Northstar, commuter rail line we took it up to Big Lake and then biked back, to Minneapolis. that worked out really well.

it was a lot of fun, and, definitely doable. You just have to plan out the timing and everything else, but, yeah, it’d be great one day to. Be able to take it all the way to St. Cloud. but, but that was a fun one. Yeah. And then, taking the blue line down to the Minnesota, River, and the Minnesota Valley Wildlife Refuge, there’s great visitor center down there with, with, great programming.

it’s less three quarters of a mile walk, I guess, from the. Train station down in Bloomington to that. you can enter that park, that area from different points, of course, but the visitor center, is fantastic.

[00:38:08] Ian: I didn’t know about that

[00:38:08] Joshua: Yep.

[00:38:09] Ian: so that’s near the mall of America station kind of thing.

[00:38:11] Joshua: Yes. It’s before the mall of America station. after the airport.

[00:38:14] Ian: Okay.

[00:38:14] Joshua: I should mention, that all these trips have been, documented on Sierra Club’s website. you can Google Sierra club, transit to green space. we blogged about it, years ago. a lot of these trips were taken years ago.

[00:38:28] Ian: nothing beats a blog from like 2006, right?

Yes.

[00:38:36] Joshua: I’m not, I can’t even remember. It was a different platform that we use now. but, yeah, we, you know, we. learned. we documented, the experiences and, it could be really inspiring for future adventures.

[00:38:49] Ian: Heck yeah.

[00:38:51] Stina: All those trips are free. Like all of the outings and things that Sierra Club Northstar offers.

[00:38:57] Joshua: Yes. All of our outings are free.

[00:39:00] Stina: you can donate.

[00:39:00] Joshua: And you can always donate, of course. But yes, we are a 501 all the outings that we offer are free. we have, interconnecting outdoors, which is focused on getting youth outside. We, have BIPOC, focused, outings, and also a military outdoors program.

we have, a GR, who, leads a lot of these, he’s a vet himself, and, there’s lots of documentation of getting vets outside, it has similar benefits to getting anyone outside, therapeutic, dealing with PTSD and whatnot, we have a lot of different programs, to get folks, experiencing, what’s available, near and far, all of our trips are generally free unless there’s some kind of, expense for, say, we used to do trips to what was called the National Forest Lodge, up north near Ely maybe.

But we stayed in a lodge, so there’s of course cost involved there, but in general they’re all free.

[00:40:05] Ian: I feel like Ely is like the platonic ideal of northern Minnesota. Like when somebody wants to just generally say like it’s north, Ely’s a safe bet.

[00:40:13] Joshua: Yes. It’s kind of a jumping point for all things Boundary Waters, at least in a lot of people’s perception.

I was in, Crosby recently and there’s a place that has just benefited from outdoor recreation, mainly mountain biking. a former, mining town that, was pretty cool. On the brink of extinction.

[00:40:32] Ian: oh, that’s the Cuyuna. Cuyuna, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

so Crosby a town. State Recreation Area, I think. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. It’s a,

[00:40:40] Joshua: it’s a State Recreation Area, correct. Mm-hmm . benefited tremendously. You feel like you’re in a mini Boulder, Colorado, or Ely, Minnesota. in Crosby now.

[00:40:51] Stina: I’m a scuba diver.

[00:40:53] Joshua: square lake

[00:40:53] Stina: find some, scuba diving locations that are well known.

Like people from across the country want to go dive in that lake. Like it is the

[00:41:03] Joshua: trees

[00:41:04] Stina: and to see the trees and just like all Yeah, freshwater Diving is not known for good visibility.

[00:41:12] Joshua: Yeah Feeling

[00:41:14] Stina: experience,

[00:41:14] Joshua: right? But that’s

[00:41:16] Stina: some of the best visibility in freshwater diving in the US

[00:41:20] Ian: and those are like Former mining pits, right?

[00:41:24] Stina: Correct. Those are all quarry pits.

[00:41:26] Joshua: That have slowly filled up with water and now you can rent clear Plexi glass Kayaks.

[00:41:33] Stina: Ooh.

[00:41:34] Joshua: which we did.

[00:41:36] Ian: So you can see straight down?

[00:41:37] Joshua: Yes. Yes and no. you have to be right over a tree to actually see.

[00:41:42] Stina: So let’s say I’m a listener. And I am just now learning about Sierra Club North Star for the first time ever. we talked about the website, the blog posts that are now archived forever. And I think you mentioned, well, you mentioned the trips, but then you mentioned some volunteering opportunities.

Where do folks find all of that? And how can they learn more?

[00:42:06] Joshua: we make it as easy as possible for people to engage in the work. we have at least monthly, new volunteer nights or orientation nights, to help plug, folks into their interests or background. as I mentioned, I provide staff support to our land use and transportation team of volunteers.

that’s, really focused on, increasing, access to, Walking, bicycling, transit, electric vehicles, and the land use piece of growing sustainably. but, that’s just one tiny part of our work at the Sierra Club, that expands, from, all aspects of climate action around, energy, forests wild lands and wetlands.

water quality. we have teams of volunteers, working on, these different issues. you can really plug into whatever your passion is or try out, different teams, to see where the best fit is for you. communications as well. We come out with. Two newsletters a year, and then, of course, electronic communications too.

So if writing is something that, you’re interested in, or, social media, whatever it is, there, there, there’s, there’s something for everyone.

[00:43:21] Ian: And if folks, want to hear more about things that Sierra Club has been involved in at the state level, both of our state legislative wrap up episodes have featured Peter Wagenius from Sierra Club North Star Chapter.

Talking about all the different legislation that we were pushing for.

[00:43:39] Joshua: We’re very active in the state legislative process. that’s a big part of our work. also local campaigns like shutting down the HERC, the garbage burner in Minneapolis, and, environmental justice, focused issues, like the Roof Depot, and greater Minnesota issues like, like, protecting the boundary waters from mining threats.

it really runs the gamut.

[00:44:07] Ian: Sweet.

Josh, thanks for coming on the show.

[00:44:11] Joshua: Yes. Pleasure is all mine. I really appreciate the opportunity and also, what do you do to get the word out about all things, impacting, that’s all.

[00:51:51] Ian: And thank you for joining us for this episode of the Streets.mn Podcast!

The show is released under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NonDerivative license. So feel free to republish the episode as long as you are not altering it, and you are not profiting from it.

The music in this episode is by Erik Brandt and the Urban Hillbilly Quartet.

This episode was produced by Stina Neel and was hosted and edited by me, Ian R Buck.

We’re always looking to feature new voices on the Streets.mn Podcast, so if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [email protected].

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Until next time, take care!

About Ian R Buck

Pronouns: he/him

Ian is a podcaster and teacher. He grew up in Saint Paul, and currently lives in Minneapolis. Ian gets around via bike and public transportation, and wants to make it possible for more people to do so as well! "You don't need a parachute to skydive; you just need a parachute to skydive twice!"

About Christina Neel

Pronouns: she/her

Christina moved to the Twin Cities from the Florida Keys in 2021 and fell completely in love with the area. She works as a City and Regional Planner and spends her days biking, singing, and hanging out with her cat named California. Events Committee volunteer