Follow along with a group of friends taking a car-free from the Twin Cities to ski and snowboard in Whitefish, Montana!
Links
- Whitefish Ski Resort
- S.N.O.W. Bus (Shuttle Network of Whitefish)
- Previous episodes referenced
Episode chapters
- 00:00 | Intro
- 00:53 | Origins of the trip
- 08:15 | The train trip
- 21:49 | The S.N.O.W. Bus
- 29:47 | The town of Whitefish
- 34:42 | Ian’s OpenStreetMap addiction
- 38:29 | The skiing
- 51:05 | Future trips
- 56:41 | When does a snowboarder take a nap?
- 58:03 | Outro
Attributions
Our theme song is Tanz den Dobberstein, and our interstitial song is Puck’s Blues. Both tracks used by permission of their creator, Erik Brandt. Find out more about his band, The Urban Hillbilly Quartet, on their website.
This episode was hosted by Ian R Buck, edited by Parker Seaman aka Strongthany, and transcribed by Stina Neel. Many thanks to Josh Benner for coming on the show. We’re always looking to feature new voices on the show, so if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [email protected].
Transcript
[00:00:00] Ian: Welcome to the Streets.mn Podcast, the show where we highlight how transportation and land use can make our communities better places. Coming to you from beautiful Uptown, Minneapolis, Minnesota, I am your host Ian R Buck. It’s time for our accidental annual tradition of episodes about car-free ski trips.
Here in the studio we have Josh Benner, who’s a longtime listener and first time guest. You like to snowboard, you love transit. When we did our episode last year about, uh, my trip with Ian Gaida to Colorado, you were the one person who like messaged me about that episode and you were super enthusiastic about it.
And Josh, you told me that you have the text here, uh, pulled up. What, what the heck did you message me a year ago?
[00:00:53] Josh: Yeah, so I was like, Ian, I loved your episode about transit and skiing. Every year I go to the resorts, mainly Breck and Keystone, and sometimes also Park City. And I exclusively use some form of public transit to get there.
I’ve even transitioned to using EV and HourCar to get the resorts in Minnesota. If you ever wanna do an episode number two of skiing via transit, I’d love to come on the pod regardless. It was great meeting you at the Neighbors for More Neighbors kickoff and I’d love to join your Buck Hill, uh, crew next year, or even Whitefish if you’re looking for more peeps to join.
[00:01:24] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. ’cause last year’s episode. We recapped the Colorado trip and then I feel like it was just kind of like an aside at the end of like postulating, like what other possibilities are there for getting out of Minnesota?
[00:01:38] Josh: Yeah.
[00:01:38] Ian: Car free and going skiing and like, Whitefish kind of came up as the most obvious one.
[00:01:44] Josh: Okay. I was wondering why Whitefish?
[00:01:46] Ian: Yeah.
[00:01:46] Josh: I still don’t, even after the trip I was like, why did we go to Whitefish? But it worked well.
[00:01:50] Ian: It did. It did I? Yeah. ’cause I had, I had heard about it. Um, I, I knew that it’s. On the Empire Builder.
[00:01:58] Josh: Okay.
[00:01:58] Ian: So I, I guess the, the main thinking was like, well, there’s no transfers.
That’s nice.
[00:02:04] Josh: That is nice. No. Yeah. ’cause that’s where like, when I was listening to the pod last year, I was like, I always. I take transit the whole way through. Essential, some, some form of transit-esque to get out to Breckenridge. Mm-hmm. Of like, I take the light rail down to the airport fly. Mm-hmm. And then sometimes I take a private shuttle or like with a bunch of group of people, um, but sometimes I take.
Light rail down to Denver Union Station.
[00:02:33] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:33] Josh: And then take the Bustang, the Colorado DOT buses.
[00:02:38] Ian: Yeah.
[00:02:38] Josh: Out to the,
[00:02:39] Ian: sorry, did they pronounce it boostang?
[00:02:41] Josh: I think so.
[00:02:41] Ian: Okay.
[00:02:42] Josh: Boostang? Bustang.
[00:02:43] Ian: I always assume ’cause it’s “mustang” then it would be a “bustang.”
[00:02:46] Josh: Bustang. Probably makes more sense. Yeah. See, you can tell I’m not from Colorado, but hey, I figured out that it’s, it’s nice and it’s cheap, so.
[00:02:55] Ian: There’s a proud tradition of like the kids who learned language from reading instead of like, you know, like there’s so many words, especially in like British literature that I like learned it just by sight and I have no idea how, how people actually say it. And here we are on an audio medium. How did we get here?
[00:03:15] Josh: Yeah.
[00:03:16] Ian: Um, okay, so, so, uh, so Breckenridge is in Colorado, outside, but outside of the Denver area, like far enough out that you have to get that you have to use bustang.
[00:03:26] Josh: Yeah, it’s about two hours. So that’s the common misconception of everyone thinks, oh, you’re in Denver, you’re close to the slopes. Uh, I mean, you’re still like two hours usually.
Right, right. Um, so like. Salt Lake City is actually much closer to the mountains.
[00:03:39] Ian: Mm.
[00:03:39] Josh: Uh, so like last year I got the chance to do that, which that worked. So if I could to go straight from downtown Salt Lake to the slopes in like 45 minutes.
[00:03:46] Ian: Okay.
[00:03:46] Josh: By the bus. Nice. On the free buses as well versus a little bit more of a hike.
But I’ve never really wanted to rent a car.
[00:03:52] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:53] Josh: And do the mountains and worry about chains or the tunnel closes or whatever.
[00:03:56] Ian: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:57] Josh: So I was like, oh, I’m just gonna take either a shuttle or the bus. So,
[00:04:02] Ian: and so many of these routes that like go from a major population center to a ski resort, a popular ski resort.
Like, you know, driving there is gonna be super congested.
[00:04:14] Josh: Yes.
[00:04:14] Ian: And like, ’cause there’s one route that goes there.
[00:04:16] Josh: Right.
[00:04:17] Ian: And because
[00:04:17] Josh: you’re going into the mountains,
[00:04:18] Ian: so, right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So, so you started the ball rolling last year and then I completely forgot about that message.
[00:04:29] Josh: Because I think we didn’t even really know each other then.
[00:04:31] Ian: Not, not really.
Yeah. You, you, yeah. Like I think we met at the Neighbors For More Neighbors thing, like you said. Yeah. And I don’t know that I had run into you at all until, um, early in the winter season this year when I, like my, my brother invited me to go to Buck Hill and so I just kind of reached out to. Just everybody who’s like in our friend Discord server, and you were the person who like replied like, oh yeah, I’d love to go to, to Buck Hill.
Like, let’s, let’s coordinate. And I ended up carpooling with my brother. And you ended up taking the Orange Line down, right? Yes. Yeah.
[00:05:08] Josh: Yeah.
[00:05:09] Ian: And so we got to hang out for that whole day. And at the end of the day, you, you just like looked at me and you were like, “I’m still on for Whitefish if you are.” And I was like, “Oh, that was you?”
[00:05:21] Josh: Yes. Yeah. No, ’cause I was just like, wait, who are these people who went to Winter Park? ’cause I’ve always wanted to do Winter Park when you talked about it, the whole episode. Mm-hmm. Um, and whatnot. Skiing is an expensive sport. It’s not very accessible. So how finding friends is always difficult too with it.
Mm-hmm. So a lot of times I go solo. I was like, no. Like, I was like, but I was like, gotta drop that ball of like Whitefish maybe. And I didn’t think it would happen this year.
[00:05:49] Ian: Yeah. It came together, like it came together very, very slowly over the course of a year. AKA we didn’t do anything about it. And then it came together all at once because you were like, “Whitefish.”
And I was like, “oh yeah, Whitefish.” And then I. Immediately started thinking about like, oh, Stina is going to be in Mexico for like 10 days straight. And I looked at like what days those were. And I realized like President’s Day weekend, like the, the school district gave me, well, students have Thursday and Friday off.
And then President’s Day off. And that, I’m sorry, they don’t have Thursday off. They had, we had conferences in the evening on Thursday. They had Friday off, they had Monday off ’cause it’s a holiday. And then teachers had professional development on Tuesday, so students were still off on Tuesday. And I realized like, okay, I can, I can take a couple of days off without impacting like.
You know, classroom time, I don’t have to get a substitute, I don’t have to plan for like, what are the students gonna do while I’m gone?
[00:06:47] Josh: Right.
[00:06:47] Ian: And I was like, that seems like a perfect weekend to go, uh, penciled out like the, the transportation plan. And then, you know, asked folks like, who wants to come?
And of course you were down and we had one other person, Brandon Davis. And, and it was a good little trip. Um, so it came together quickly, but. Didn’t come together early enough for most people to be able to just be like, oh yeah, I’ll, I’ll just take that day off.
[00:07:14] Josh: Yeah, no. Plus it was Valentine’s Day weekend as well.
[00:07:19] Ian: That’s right.
[00:07:19] Josh: Because that’s where I was like, Ooh, like, and my wife had said before, oh. ’cause when I was planning my ski trips for the year, I was like, oh, I can’t leave that weekend. And then my wife had been like, yeah, you can. I don’t care that much. Like it’s fine.
[00:07:32] Ian: Yeah.
[00:07:33] Josh: Maybe give me something like a nice treat, but it’s fine.
[00:07:35] Ian: Yeah. I heard that some like concessions were…
[00:07:37] Josh: Yeah. A negotiated so that, yeah. So I was trying to negotiate and then I called that out for both you and Brandon. Brandon got the green light. But yes. Then our, our wives conspired with each other. I don’t know if she got anything. So it’s a great,
[00:07:56] Ian: and I, fortunately for me, like Stina had already decided that she was gonna be out of town.
Yes. So, like, I, you know, if anything, I would’ve been the one asking for like, “Hey, you know, you’re, you’re leaving me for Valentine’s Day. Like, what am I gonna get in return?” I got a ski trip in return. Yeah. Um. Okay, so, so let’s talk about that transportation plan. Right? So unlike, you know, the, the trips down to Colorado, which you’ve done by airplane, I did it by train and bus, um, which was a bit of a haul, right?
Yeah. Um, Whitefish, Montana is just one, one train right away. It’s almost exactly 24 hours end to end from the Twin Cities. Yeah. Uh, assuming. That everything’s on time,
[00:08:46] Josh: which it was on the way there.
[00:08:47] Ian: It was. We, I,
[00:08:48] Josh: we were early, like the entire way there.
[00:08:51] Ian: Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:51] Josh: We had like extra smoke break, like fresh air breaks.
[00:08:56] Ian: Oh yeah. Okay.
[00:08:57] Josh: Yeah, we had like two, I think we had two or three extra fresh air breaks because we were
[00:09:01] Ian: not just longer fresh air breaks, but they gave us
[00:09:03] Josh: extra. Yeah. No, I think they had an extra one or two as well.
[00:09:06] Ian: I think I was probably sleeping.
[00:09:07] Josh: Yeah. Or you were still editing your podcast.
[00:09:10] Ian: I was. Yes.
Yeah. Highly recommend editing podcasts on a train. It’s a great time. Very, very chill. The one drawback is that, uh, the train. Vibrates and the mouse was all over the place. Like if I tried,
[00:09:24] Josh: that’s what Brandon was wondering. He’s like, I don’t know how he’s doing the, like mouse and stuff.
[00:09:29] Ian: I had to put the mouse on my thigh.
[00:09:32] Josh: Oh.
[00:09:32] Ian: Instead of on the tray table in front of me. Because that Yeah, the fabric,
[00:09:37] Josh: the tables are so far too
[00:09:38] Ian: anyways. Yeah.
[00:09:39] Josh: Yeah. Not great for computer work.
[00:09:41] Ian: No, no. They’re fine for like looking at a computer screen. Yeah.
[00:09:44] Josh: Watching a movie or
[00:09:46] Ian: Right. Anyway, so, so 24 hours end to end the, the train picks up in the Twin Cities.
At like 11:00 PM and drops you off in Whitefish at 10:00 PM which is 24 hours because there’s a time zone change. And the really nice thing about that schedule is that like, okay, you get onto the train, you immediately go to sleep. You have one night of challenging sleep in coach. And then you have a whole day on the train, right?
Where you get to, you know, you walk around, stretch, breaks, fresh air, breaks,
[00:10:16] Josh: read, enjoy the scenery.
[00:10:17] Ian: Yep,
[00:10:18] Josh: yep.
[00:10:18] Ian: And then you get to Whitefish in the evening and you have one night of sleeping in a nice hotel bed, and then you hit the slopes the next morning.
[00:10:25] Josh: Yes.
[00:10:25] Ian: So you’re not trying to hit the slopes like immediately after getting off of a train.
[00:10:30] Josh: Right. Which, I guess that’s what you did. Or was it the bus that you did with Denver?
[00:10:34] Ian: Oh God,
[00:10:34] Josh: yeah. I heard it was. Everyone talks about how you were like, that was a mistake.
[00:10:38] Ian: Yeah, I, I got off of a bus, intercity bus from the Quad Cities, Iowa to Denver, and I got off the bus at like 6:30 in the morning. And then the Winter, the Winter Park train.
Leaves Denver at like seven or 7:30.
[00:10:55] Josh: Yeah. It’s it’s still pretty early.
[00:10:56] Ian: Yeah, so I, I got breakfast at Union Station and then we got onto the trip, like I didn’t have time to, and
[00:11:00] Josh: then you went straight to skiing?
[00:11:01] Ian: Yeah. I didn’t, I didn’t drop anything off at the, yeah. And so that was coming off of a night of sleeping on a bus, which is worse than on a train.
[00:11:10] Josh: Oh, that’s so worse.
[00:11:10] Ian: Yeah.
[00:11:11] Josh: Oh man.
[00:11:13] Ian: That was honestly my own doing. I mean, Ian arrived in, in town the evening before by airplane.
[00:11:20] Josh: Sure.
[00:11:20] Ian: And so he got to sleep in a hotel bed. Yeah. That was nice for him.
[00:11:24] Josh: Yeah. No. But yeah, the schedule was nice and like I liked, I actually kind of liked in that sense of like, I mean it, I wouldn’t be upset if the train left a couple hours earlier, but it was nice that it was at like 11:00 PM essentially ish.
Mm-hmm. Of like. I had packed the day or two before. ’cause I had stuff going on before and I was on top of my shit. But there are definitely times trips where I’m packing the day of.
[00:11:45] Ian: Right.
[00:11:46] Josh: And snowboarding since I bring my board. It’s a lot of stuff.
[00:11:49] Ian: Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:49] Josh: Regardless of like, oh, you could get off work and like absolutely just pack if you-
[00:11:54] Ian: And that’s what I did.
[00:11:55] Josh: Oh, because that’s what you did.
[00:11:56] Ian: Yeah, I, I got out, so yeah, the school ends at well, okay. So we had conferences. So we ended at 4:00 PM I biked home, packed up, and then actually Regina and Jason were hosting a bonfire in their backyard that evening, and I was like, you know what?
I don’t have to be at Union Depot until like. 10:00 PM you know, realistically I could arrive there at 10:30 and I would be fine.
[00:12:23] Josh: Yeah.
[00:12:23] Ian: Uh, but, but yeah, it was still enough time to like hang out with folks at the bonfire and then leave. And I got to confuse everybody by saying, yeah, I’m going, I’m, I’m headed east to go to Whitefish Montana.
[00:12:37] Josh: Yeah, no, I remember that. ’cause like, I didn’t even know about the bonfire and then I saw that and I was just like. Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. But I was like, yeah, I’m already,
[00:12:45] Ian: yeah. And, and I pack very light, you know, I, yeah,
[00:12:48] Josh: you did pack really light.
[00:12:49] Ian: I had everything. I’ve got a 32 liter, 36 liter backpack. Okay. Um, which is kind of in that weird middle ground between like day pack and a proper backpacking pack, you know?
[00:13:04] Josh: Yeah.
[00:13:04] Ian: Um, but. Yeah,
[00:13:06] Josh: it’s hard. It’s weird. Weirder with winter, I was like, I have a 40 liter travel backpack, and that’s good enough to get like a week or two if you’re doing like true backpacking esque of like Europe or something.
[00:13:16] Ian: Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:16] Josh: Or like trips. But winter gear is always bulkier.
[00:13:19] Ian: Right, right. And, and I did allow myself to like pack a different set of long johns, you know?
[00:13:28] Josh: Yeah.
[00:13:28] Ian: Uh, the, the full, you know, shirt
[00:13:31] Josh: base layer
[00:13:32] Ian: Yeah. Mid layer, et cetera, like. I had two different sets of that for the two days of skiing that we were doing Right. Which is not strictly necessary, but I allowed myself that. Um, and then I had enough snacks to like, you know, exist on a train for a day.
[00:13:47] Josh: Yeah.
[00:13:48] Ian: I took the B Line over. Um, I, I don’t think that there was anything notable about that trip. Um, you, you took the 94, right?
[00:13:57] Josh: Yeah. Yes. I took the 94D. So that, that was nice.
[00:14:02] Ian: Mm-hmm. Real, real zippy.
[00:14:04] Josh: Yep.
[00:14:04] Ian: And, uh, and then I handed off the keys to my apartment to my parents because they wanted to do another staycation.
Uh, oh. Fun. For, for just that long weekend while I was gone. Um, listeners can go back and check out, uh, the previous episode that we had about the first time that my parents did a staycation at my house. We met up with Brandon and we hopped on a train and we went to sleep. Yeah. The train trip back is also 24 hours.
Uh, but it starts in the morning and in theory ends up in the morning as well. Yeah. I think we’re supposed to get into the Twin Cities at like 8:30 AM or something
[00:14:42] Josh: like that. I think it’s 8:30 because I was hoping if we were on time that I’d be able to like get home and get to work.
[00:14:48] Ian: Yeah.
[00:14:48] Josh: It’s just like.
My day kind of randomly starts at like 8:30 , 9, so take my first call from my phone and jump to work.
[00:14:56] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. I, I took the first half of the day off and then my plan was to arrive at the Tech Center in time for my afternoon class at 1:00 PM and I mentally, like, I had mathed out, like, okay, if we’re up to three hours late.
I’ll be able to do that just fine.
[00:15:17] Josh: Yeah.
[00:15:17] Ian: And then we were three and a half hours late when we rolled in, I think. And so I was like, Ugh. All right. I’m getting, I’m going to be getting to downtown Minneapolis. At the time when I should be starting work.
[00:15:29] Josh: Yeah.
[00:15:30] Ian: So that morning I like put in a last minute, you know, okay, we need a substitute for the afternoon class.
Like I’m taking the whole day off. But I honestly, I think that’s probably what I should have done from the get go, because it was really nice to have like roll into town and have a day to decompress. Yeah, to unpack, to do the laundry, et cetera, and not. I have to think about work until the next day.
[00:15:54] Josh: Agreed. Yeah. Yeah, because that’s what I ended up doing. ’cause I ended up just taking the day off last minute and then I was like, yeah, it was nice. ’cause I was like, I am actually a little tired.
[00:16:02] Ian: Yeah. And I think, um, this doesn’t affect you ’cause you don’t work for the school district, but if, if next year, if the school district gives us the same like, okay, no students on Friday and no, no students on Tuesday. I think I would rather take the day off on Friday and take the day off on Tuesday and, you know, shift the entire weekend…
[00:16:24] Josh: up a day,
[00:16:25] Ian: up a day. Um, so then we would be skiing on Saturday and Sunday instead of on Sunday and Monday.
Yeah.
[00:16:32] Josh: Okay.
[00:16:33] Ian: And then Monday would just be the travel day. Yeah,
[00:16:36] Josh: yeah,
[00:16:36] Ian: yeah. Um. That’s, that’s the main lesson that I learned from all of this is like, okay, you know, we, we planned it late enough that the train tickets, like on different days had differentiated themselves, you know, a little bit. So the, like traveling on Friday was more expensive than traveling on Saturday.
So that was, that was the main motivation that we had for, for. The schedule that we chose. Yeah.
[00:17:02] Josh: Right.
[00:17:03] Ian: Yeah.
[00:17:03] Josh: Right.
[00:17:03] Ian: So you mentioned that you, you know, had your snowboard with you. It’s a lot of stuff to carry.
[00:17:09] Josh: Yes.
[00:17:09] Ian: Like how, how does that go on the train? Um,
[00:17:13] Josh: yeah, so when I travel regardless, I always have my snowboard bag, and then I have usually a carry-on suitcase.
Mm-hmm. I used to bring my 40 liter travel. Backpack. But recently I’ve moved to my roller ’cause it’s just easier, less, um, all. And because usually when I fly specifically, then I use another backpack on my back to have my helmet. Because essentially what I wanna do when I travel with my stuff is have, obviously my board goes in my board bag.
Um, but my boots, my coat, my bibs, my helmet, my goggles, I all want always with me.
[00:17:56] Ian: Mm.
[00:17:56] Josh: So if everything else gets lost, I’m buying a new board, but I have my boots, I have my coat and stuff. I can go buy new base layers and all that jazz.
[00:18:04] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:05] Josh: Um, but be fine. So that’s what I traveled with. And then the train had the unique challenge of like food.
[00:18:11] Ian: mm-hmm.
[00:18:12] Josh: And snacks, which usually I don’t have. I definitely brought way too many snacks. Um,
[00:18:18] Ian: we had a great time sharing snacks while we were on the train.
[00:18:21] Josh: Like everybody, yeah, we had like a whole charcuterie board or whatever, and I like, of course, didn’t think to like bring a knife, but I brought the salami.
Because I had like Googled like, what should I bring for this? Like, but like snacks that I’ve, oh, and I brought a cooler, which we should, if we, if I do a cooler, small cooler, we should combine or whatever.
[00:18:40] Ian: Yeah.
[00:18:40] Josh: Brandon had the pocket knife and I was like, oh, I would’ve been screwed. I would’ve just been like, chomping, like on the salami or something.
[00:18:48] Ian: They’ve gotta have, I mean, they’ve got plastic,
[00:18:50] Josh: like yeah, I would’ve made ’em work
[00:18:51] Ian: with
[00:18:51] Josh: plastic knife.
[00:18:52] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. That’s fair. Do we have any. Tips for people regarding like sleeping on the train?
[00:18:59] Josh: Yes. I think we did well, at least unsaid, which then I thought about, ’cause I think Brandon asked me of like, you gotta have an eye mask.
[00:19:07] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:08] Josh: I think for sure,
[00:19:09] Ian: for sure.
[00:19:09] Josh: If you have earplugs, that’s helpful depending on how sensitive you are. I did fine with that. I,
[00:19:15] Ian: yeah, I just use my like Bluetooth earbuds.
[00:19:17] Josh: Um.
[00:19:19] Ian: Sometimes I play white noise through them. Sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I just use them as earplugs.
[00:19:23] Josh: Yeah, no, it was really nice though of, since that, particularly in winter, I feel like that section of track is probably pretty empty.
[00:19:31] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:32] Josh: Of like, and like no one was really going to Whitefish. There wasn’t that many people in our car of like, we all got our own row.
[00:19:38] Ian: Yes.
[00:19:38] Josh: You get the both seats. I had to teach Brandon ’cause he had never been on Amtrak, I don’t think of like how to, or on the Empire Builder. The, is that a Superliner, a view liner?
I don’t know.
[00:19:47] Ian: Super liner, I think. Yeah.
[00:19:48] Josh: Okay. I know Ian Gaida’s gonna come after me for not knowing my trains. Being able to recline both. And the foot rest. Yeah. Oh. Since something I learned, which if I use end up using my rail pass
[00:20:02] Ian: mm-hmm.
[00:20:02] Josh: Is I was like, oh that is kind of, that’s 10 segments. That’s could be a long, if you wanna get your use, you’re gonna end up doing a lot of hours on the train.
[00:20:09] Ian: Yeah.
[00:20:10] Josh: Of you can get inflatable footrest that fill that gap between the footrest and the, so you actually have like a full bed-esque
[00:20:18] Ian: Okay. Okay.
[00:20:18] Josh: Because, you know, it’s like we both kind of learned how to like curl up into a ball across two seats with the footrest. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Up. But you know, it’s still like you can’t have your foot, feet over the footrest when you’re curled up in a ball or else you feel like you’re falling off.
[00:20:31] Ian: Right, right.
[00:20:32] Josh: Like a cliff.
[00:20:33] Ian: Yeah.
[00:20:33] Josh: I like so having a little gap filler there would’ve been nice.
[00:20:36] Ian: I’m trying to remember where, like, so I, I was curled up with both, yeah. Across two seats. And I think I had my, like, my feet wedged into one corner, which I think was the, like where, where the back rest meets the armrest of one of the seats.
And then I had my head. At the bottom of like the footrest. Okay. But because I had the footrest so high, it wasn’t on like an incline or anything like that. Right,
[00:21:01] Josh: right.
[00:21:01] Ian: It was easier to do it that way because wedging my feet into somewhere forced. Like otherwise, my legs are just naturally gonna like, you know, slowly ease their a way up like to be straightened out and then my feet are gonna be like falling off of something? Right.
[00:21:18] Josh: Right. No, and I think that’s what I’ve figured out is I think I ended up preferring putting my feet into the window-side crack.
[00:21:26] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:26] Josh: Because you have a little extra space, but the gaps because like your feet can’t go past the, the wall of the train.
[00:21:32] Ian: Yes.
[00:21:32] Josh: And then my head towards the aisle. Mm-hmm. So I tried it the opposite way and my feet would sometimes get. Like falling into the aisle or whatever. Mm-hmm. And then that’d wake me up or whatever.
[00:21:42] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:21:43] Josh: So
[00:21:44] Ian: we are getting really deep into the weeds of sleeping on Amtrak. I love this.
[00:21:48] Josh: I mean, it’s important though.
[00:21:49] Ian: Yeah. Um, so the other thing that we researched before going on this trip is how are we gonna get around in town? Right? How are we gonna get up to ski resort? Introducing the S.N.O.W Bus.
[00:22:03] Josh: The S.N.O.W. bus.
[00:22:04] Ian: I don’t know that it’s, it’s, it’s. It is written out as if it’s an acronym. I don’t think that S.N.O.W. actually stands for anything, but it is so good.
Um, it’s like
[00:22:17] Josh: the S.N.O.W. bus is Goated.
[00:22:18] Ian: Yeah. There’s like I noted at least three different buses in use.
[00:22:23] Josh: Yeah.
[00:22:24] Ian: All of them with distinct paint jobs. All of them are like old Bluebird brand, like school buses, but they’re all different models. Like some like. Uh, some of them only have a door on the front. Some of them have like, you know,
[00:22:39] Josh: yeah.
[00:22:39] Ian: Two doors. Yeah. One of them has like some big jaws like painted onto the front, and then some LED eyes above the windshield. That, and the eyes actually like look around and. That was awesome. That was the party bus.
[00:22:56] Josh: That was, that was the coolest bus
[00:22:57] Ian: for sure. Yeah.
[00:22:58] Josh: Yeah.
[00:22:59] Ian: Every single one of them. I was like, Hmm.
There’s like a 60% chance that, like we make it up the, the mountain. It sounds like this like old engine.
[00:23:06] Josh: Oh, the edge, definitely. Which I remember looking at the schedule and I was, because like I’m used to a lot of ski towns have like free bus systems. Yep. Or whatever. And I remember looking at the schedule and I was like, there’s no way from the last stop to the mountain.
It’s like an extra 20 minutes. We’re not that far. And then. I didn’t, I guess I didn’t understand the geography ’cause I didn’t understand that like, oh, in town is like at the bottom of the mountain. It, except you, it’s in the valley. Drive the entire way up the mountain. Mm-hmm.
[00:23:34] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:35] Josh: Versus like places where like you’re at the bottom, you take a gondola up to the top or whatever, you know?
[00:23:40] Ian: Yeah.
[00:23:40] Josh: So I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. So that was definitely like the first time we got on that bus, I was like, is this bus gonna make it up this mountain?
[00:23:48] Ian: Yeah. And, and I mean, the fun thing about that is when you’re up there on the mountain and you get to look down and you’re like, oh, there’s town and then there’s just flat.
[00:23:56] Josh: Oh yeah.
[00:23:57] Ian: All the way until the horizon. And that’s where like, oh, the next group of mountains starts over there. But for some reason there’s this big, giant, flat area and Whitefish. Yeah.
[00:24:06] Josh: It’s the county, the outer of the range or something like
[00:24:08] Ian: there had to be a glacier involved or something.
[00:24:10] Josh: Yeah. Like Whitefish is.
Like that, like the ski resorts on the outside edge of one of the ranges. Yep. Yep. And then it’s flat versus I feel like a lot of the other resorts are like in the middle. Right. And then the towns middle nestled the small little valley, but there’s not like
[00:24:24] Ian: mm-hmm.
[00:24:25] Josh: Vastness.
[00:24:26] Ian: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the, the S.N.O.W. bus, pretty good frequency, honestly, like usually around 30 minute frequency.
[00:24:34] Josh: But
[00:24:35] Ian: sometimes it was as little as like 10 minutes in between buses.
[00:24:38] Josh: They do like their own version of rush hour, I think.
[00:24:40] Ian: Yeah. And then other times it’s an hour and a half in between buses and I’m looking at the schedule and I can’t quite figure out how they decided, like where are their peak hours and where.
Is the slump because it, it really, it, it like comes and goes throughout the day, multiple times.
[00:24:59] Josh: So I think I figured it out that it, it was like, you know, the first, earlier in the morning at the start, it’s like every 30 or whatever. Mm-hmm. Probably to get employees up and early birds and whatever. And then it goes like every 10 for like rush hour to get to the mountain before open or just like, you know, a little bit after, open for the first hour, couple hours after open.
And then in the middle of the day it’s like. Every 90 minutes or something crazy. Right. And then it picks back up again from like 3:00 to 5:00 PM
[00:25:27] Ian: mm-hmm.
[00:25:27] Josh: Where you can get home quickly.
[00:25:29] Ian: Yep.
[00:25:29] Josh: And then after that, it’s every 90 until
[00:25:32] Ian: Right. And it does go. Yeah. So
[00:25:35] Josh: I feel, I feel like it’s very much based off the mountains, like start and end.
Mm-hmm. Hours. Not around getting to town.
[00:25:42] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, that’s my one complaint about it is, um, you know, they’ve set up this great system to, to get people from town up to the mountain and everything without a car. So clearly they are thinking about like, oh, people being here without, like, arriving here in a car.
And yet the last S.N.O.W. bus that’s scheduled to go into town is at like. 10:17 PM and the Amtrak is scheduled to pull into town at 10:21 PM
[00:26:14] Josh: If it’s on time.
[00:26:15] Ian: If it’s on time, yes. And, and you know, I don’t expect the S.N.O.W. Bus folks to like take into account like, oh, you know. This is how late we expect the train to be, but like, you know, allow for like, like let us have the plan A that actually works.
In this case, they gave us a plan A that’s like well close but no cigar, like.
[00:26:36] Josh: Yeah. Well, and that’s where I learned, ’cause our hotel that we stayed mm-hmm. They said they do shuttles.
[00:26:42] Ian: Yes.
[00:26:42] Josh: From they can pick you up from the Amtrak station, the airport.
[00:26:46] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:46] Josh: Or I think they could actually bring you to the mountain too.
[00:26:50] Ian: Oh really?
[00:26:50] Josh: Supposedly. Well, I’m wondering if that’s a official. A lot of times, well that wouldn’t make sense though if you’re staying there ’cause you’re going to their hotels, nevermind. But they said they were also until 10:00 PM and I was like, for the train. And I was like, what? That doesn’t make any sense.
So then I called and they’re like, it’s until 11, which I’m like, okay. At least there’s like a cutoff.
[00:27:09] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:09] Josh: That if your train is less, isn’t it late? More than 40 minutes. You could get picked up.
[00:27:14] Ian: Yes. And we did.
[00:27:16] Josh: And we did.
[00:27:16] Ian: Yeah. They sent a Sprinter van and the three of us, plus another group who got off at, at Whitefish.
Uh, they also were going to the same hotel as us. And so we pretty much, I think there was only one seat open. Yeah, in that van, it was a good, good utilization of resources.
[00:27:35] Josh: Oh yeah. We absolutely packed that van, which was good.
[00:27:37] Ian: Yep. Um, and you know, in the worst case scenario, if we arrived in like the middle of the night and like, you know, the airport shuttle isn’t available, nobody who drives Uber is awake.
You know, like it still would’ve only been a 25 minute walk, I think, which is fine. Like it would not have been fun, but like we would have been able to do it.
[00:27:59] Josh: Maybe
[00:28:00] Ian: I would have
[00:28:01] Josh: you packed light. I had my board bag.
[00:28:03] Ian: I would’ve pulled one of your items of luggage because I packed light. You know, like,
[00:28:08] Josh: yeah.
[00:28:09] Ian: Hey, one thing that I, I noticed about the S.N.O.W. bus is that it is. It’s a service that’s provided by the commercial, um,
[00:28:18] Josh: local business association.
[00:28:19] Ian: Yeah, the commercial association. And they note on all of the materials for the S.N.O.W bus, like look for the bus sticker in the windows of businesses in the area.
Those are the ones who are part of the business association and are like, you know, pitching in to provide this service. And I obviously, I feel like this should be a public service. The city should probably be thinking about this, but I love that the commercial enterprises in the area have recognized that like, Hey, transit is a great thing to provide people, and also a great thing to brag about providing to people.
Like, people love this bus, they’re going to want to know who brought them the bus and like, like that’s the identity of the business association is like, we’re the bus people.
[00:29:07] Josh: You know, we’re the bus people. You don’t hear that often.
[00:29:11] Ian: Right.
[00:29:12] Josh: But like, yeah. Imagine if the, like one of the associations in Uptown or something like that was like, we are the E Line bus people.
Mm-hmm. Like
[00:29:19] Ian: mm-hmm.
[00:29:20] Josh: You know,
[00:29:21] Ian: they could do that. There’s nothing stopping them.
[00:29:23] Josh: Yeah.
[00:29:24] Ian: And I mean, you know, we, we have had like yeah. Associations in different areas like. Helping to make like the passport program a thing. Right? Sure. You know, they were kind of coordinating with, with Metro Transit on that and stuff like that.
So yeah. I mean, I, I feel like more and more people are recognizing like transit. It’s a,
[00:29:43] Josh: yeah.
[00:29:43] Ian: It’s a good thing to get it.
[00:29:44] Josh: It’s like the Bike Benefits, but
[00:29:46] Ian: Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:46] Josh: But for the bus.
[00:29:47] Ian: Yep. Yep, yep. Speaking of bikes, um, the town of Whitefish, oh my god, so much bike parking. Amazing.
[00:29:54] Josh: No, that was, it was nice.
[00:29:56] Ian: Uh, nobody biking around. At least not, we still need to. Yeah. It was definitely warm enough.
[00:30:03] Josh: Yeah.
[00:30:04] Ian: And it, there was no snow on the ground in town.
[00:30:06] Josh: It was weird to me. ’cause I feel like I usually see in some ski towns, it varies.
[00:30:11] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:11] Josh: But usually the bike infrastructure is. Decent esque. Um,
[00:30:16] Ian: there weren’t really any dedicated bike lanes in town, but also there didn’t seem to be enough traffic in town for that to really matter.
[00:30:26] Josh: No, the town was pretty small.
[00:30:28] Ian: Yeah. There was a, a paved bike trail that went alongside like the county road that leads up to the mountain.
[00:30:35] Josh: Yeah.
[00:30:35] Ian: Um,
[00:30:35] Josh: which I was impressed by that.
[00:30:37] Ian: Yeah.
[00:30:37] Josh: And like over the bridge and everything like that. Mm-hmm. So I’m sure there’s some like good trails off of that.
[00:30:42] Ian: Yeah.
[00:30:43] Josh: Yeah.
[00:30:43] Ian: And Whitefish is, you know, a town that is known for like, gravel riding, I think in the summer.
[00:30:48] Josh: Okay.
[00:30:48] Ian: And they, there’s probably a lot of mountain biking that happens at the ski resort, so, yeah. Um, the S.N.O.W. bus doesn’t operate in the summer though, so I, I wonder what the logistics are of like, I want to go mountain biking at Whitefish Ski Resort.
[00:31:05] Josh: Yeah. That’s interesting because that’s where like. In Summit County out in Colorado.
[00:31:10] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:11] Josh: Their systems, like the, the county runs it. But yeah, they do obviously like they, as climate change particularly has happened, it’s like. We go, they go very much from skiing season to mountain bike season.
[00:31:24] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:25] Josh: And so, you know, and
[00:31:26] Ian: there’s not a whole lot of downtime in between.
[00:31:28] Josh: Right. Yeah. And so, like, they, even, I think I, I see their service announcements when I’m out there too, you know, and spring skiing of like when we’re gonna switch this to then operate more so to these trails so you can go mountain biking or mm-hmm.
Whatnot. Um, or like a lot of them end up having Yeah. Like the fat racks and stuff like that.
[00:31:43] Ian: Yeah. Okay.
[00:31:44] Josh: Yeah,
because I do always see people a lot with their bikes out in Summit County.
[00:31:48] Ian: Yeah. The town of Whitefish is, is super duper cute. Um, we stopped at a really cool bike shop called Great Northern Cyclery.
Uh, didn’t have much reason to buy many things there since we were there in the winter, and we did not bring our bikes to town. But, um, I did buy a water bottle that is like, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a bag. Yeah. And so, you know, it rolls up and, and compresses super duper small. Uh, which I think is gonna be useful for like bike touring because.
Quite often when I’m, I have a big three liter bladder that I drink out of while I’m on the bike.
[00:32:24] Josh: Hmm.
[00:32:25] Ian: And then when I get to camp, I’m like, well, this is a really inconvenient vessel for water. While I’m sitting at a picnic table. So being able to have a, you know, an actual water bottle sized thing Right.
With a valve that is, you know, yes. I’ll be able to actually drink out of something while I’m in camp.
[00:32:42] Josh: Right. No. Well, and I had seen Patrick from Joyful Riders, he had one of those things.
[00:32:47] Ian: All right.
[00:32:48] Josh: Um, and I had like, thought about it, but I was like, uh, do I actually really need this? And like, I’ve done bladders, I’ve done water bottles on the mountain and stuff.
[00:32:55] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:56] Josh: Um, but yeah, they kinda get annoying or they leak or if you like do a water bottle or whatever, they’re heavy or bulky, kind of
[00:33:04] Ian: mm-hmm.
[00:33:04] Josh: In my backpack because I, yeah. Usually ride with a backpack. So my wife had gotten like a really cheap plastic one from her company, but I was like, well, lemme try it out, because it was the same concept, just not silicone.
[00:33:16] Ian: Sure.
[00:33:16] Josh: And I was like, no, this is actually really nice ’cause like I can fill it. Drink it on the mountain and then it’s like super tiny in my coat pocket.
[00:33:23] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:24] Josh: So definitely I will be converting as well for sure.
[00:33:28] Ian: I love, I love. Funny little innovations like that that like make a huge difference. Yeah.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:33:34] Josh: Yeah.
[00:33:35] Ian: Let’s see. Oh, we passed a church that had the most adorable message on, on their front marquee. Like, Hey, everybody, Sunday mornings come to church in your, in your ski gear. Then hop on the S.N.O.W. bus to go up the mountain.
[00:33:49] Josh: Yeah. Like all together. I wanna know though, like do they, do they have a potluck together at the top or like do they all ride the chair lifts together?
[00:33:57] Ian: Yeah,
[00:33:58] Josh: like
[00:33:59] Ian: I do remember seeing a sign up there at the summit. Yes. That was like, oh, there’s, there’s like a noon church service at the top of the mountain. Yeah. Um, which seems like an amazing venue for that kind of thing. Um, but I just, I just love that there’s like a normal church that’s like, yep. We know that.
We know that a bunch of our, our parishioners are gonna be like, yeah, I want to go skiing today. I don’t want to have to like, choose between skiing and going to church. So they’re like, yeah, it’s fine. Just, just wear your ski gear to church. Like it’s chill.
[00:34:30] Josh: Right, right. Or if you’re like the, the super committed religious person like visiting
[00:34:37] Ian: Mm.
Yes.
[00:34:37] Josh: You, you wouldn’t have to compromise.
[00:34:39] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:39] Josh: You could do your service and go skiing.
[00:34:42] Ian: Mm-hmm. I see a note in our, in our show notes here, that you’re gonna cut me down to size on, on my. OpenStreetMap addiction.
[00:34:52] Josh: Oh my gosh. Every time we got off the train I’d be like, where’s Ian? Or like, what’s he doing?
Because he is just like absolutely glued into his phone, like looking around all bewildered, but not like at the scenery, like looking at other stuff. And then I’m like, oh, he’s open street. And then I learned he’s open street mapping and I was like, oh, okay. Okay. He’s like, oh, like since we had all this extra time.
[00:35:20] Ian: Yes.
[00:35:20] Josh: At the stations on the way there. I feel you. You were like, oh, I can have to go into the station. Because I was like, I think if we had it, you would’ve gotten left at a station or two, but you were like, alright, what’s this street name? And you’re like asking the Amtrak employees inside or whatever.
You’re like, what’s the hours for the, the coffee cart? Mm-hmm.
[00:35:40] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:40] Josh: And what station was that?
[00:35:42] Ian: Oh gosh, that was in North Dakota somewhere. Um. That wasn’t Minot, was it?
[00:35:47] Josh: Was it Minot?
[00:35:48] Ian: I don’t remember. Yeah, it’s, it’s funny how hard it is to see the address number for Amtrak station buildings. Like for some reason they designed those buildings and I haven’t figured out where they put the number.
Uh, and so I had to go inside, like I had to ask an employee.
[00:36:06] Josh: Okay. It is Minot
[00:36:07] Ian: multiple times like. What is the street address for this? This particular building?
[00:36:12] Josh: Yeah. Oh. ’cause I think, like when we were joking about doing the pizza trick, I couldn’t even figure out the, the address of the station that Oh, yeah, they delivered to
[00:36:20] Ian: Uhhuh.
I bet if you told them to the Amtrak station they would. They would know where to,
[00:36:24] Josh: oh, I’m sure. I’m sure. Which I laughed about that ’cause after we joked about doing the pizza trick,
[00:36:31] Ian: um, okay, well we have to tell the audience what’s the pizza trick?
[00:36:34] Josh: What is the pizza trick?
[00:36:35] Ian: Uh, so we witnessed, uh, a few other people on the train who,
[00:36:38] Josh: oh, you guys witnessed somebody doing that?
[00:36:40] Ian: I think so.
[00:36:40] Josh: Oh, I’d only seen it from Reddit.
[00:36:42] Ian: or maybe, okay. Okay. Um, somebody was talking about like. Yeah, if you’re hungry on the train and you don’t wanna spend train prices, just look ahead at like, where is the next station? Where like, where are you gonna be? That’s around dinner time. Order a pizza from a local place and have them deliver it to the Amtrak station and just hand it to you on the platform, on the platform.
Great concept.
[00:37:09] Josh: Yeah.
[00:37:10] Ian: Excellent.
[00:37:10] Josh: No. Then I just sometimes where I’m like, China is living in next level. I got on my feed after we got back from the trip or whatever. There’s some train in China, like a high speed train too, that I don’t know if they actually have a dining car on the train or not, but regardless.
Instead, what they have is you can order food to your seat from local businesses at the next stops.
[00:37:34] Ian: Oh,
[00:37:35] Josh: and essentially they just like. They, they facilitate this just group, group them all.
[00:37:39] Ian: Okay. Uhhuh.
[00:37:39] Josh: Yeah. And then they, you know, the, the bullet train stops. They shove, you know, people are getting on and off, they shove the food on and then they go and then the train keeps moving and then they go deliver it to you.
[00:37:48] Ian: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[00:37:49] Josh: yeah. So I’m assuming they don’t have a dining cart, but I was like, wait, that’s so much better. That like, yeah.
[00:37:53] Ian: Yeah.
[00:37:53] Josh: You can get way better food.
[00:37:55] Ian: You don’t have to fit an industrial kitchen onto this like tiny, I mean, standing next to a Superliner train car. It did make me like realize like, oh no.
I am in a small building right now. Yeah. We are in a small city that is on wheels. Yes. Um, cue, the, you know, Snowpiercer references and whatever. So anyway, there’s a bunch of, there’s a bunch of like train platforms that have more information about them now on OpenStreetMap because I happen to go on a trip this, this winter.
[00:38:27] Josh: Thanks Ian.
[00:38:29] Ian: We haven’t actually talked about the actual skiing yet.
[00:38:31] Josh: Yeah, we didn’t talk about skiing.
[00:38:32] Ian: Let’s talk about skiing. So, uh, Brandon and I were both skiing, we both rented our gear. You were snowboarding, you brought your gear.
[00:38:39] Josh: Yep.
[00:38:40] Ian: I think this was all of our first times to, to Whitefish?
[00:38:43] Josh: I think
[00:38:43] Ian: so.
Yeah. And I found that the. The difficulty levels, the difficulty ratings of all of the runs were very well calibrated to my ability level. Right. Like every ski resort that you go to?
[00:39:00] Josh: Yeah. They’re all different on how they rate,
[00:39:02] Ian: right? Right.
[00:39:02] Josh: Yeah.
[00:39:03] Ian: And so like, like when I go to Buck Hill, I know that everything’s on the table for me personally, like Right.
I don’t have to care about whether it’s a black diamond or whether it’s a blue circle or whatever. Right. At Whitefish, it was like, okay, I’ve very quickly figured out that like. Some of, some of the, uh, blue squares. Are kind of pushing it in terms of like, you know, like I, I didn’t feel like I was going to lose control on them, but it was like I am having to focus and concentrate on like what I’m doing here.
[00:39:34] Josh: Yeah.
[00:39:34] Ian: Um, and then I, for any of the black diamonds, it’s like, okay, probably on the table, but I have to think twice. I have to evaluate it before I decide whether to go down.
[00:39:43] Josh: Right.
[00:39:44] Ian: Yeah. And then double blacks. No, no, no, no. Not this year.
[00:39:48] Josh: No. That’s how it is for me. When I go out to Summit County too, like when I go out to Breck, I prefer peak six with all the blues.
Um, they’re just nice. They’re fun.
[00:39:59] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:59] Josh: Versus peak 10. I do like with all the blacks there, but even some of them it can be too fast or too mogley or whatever.
[00:40:06] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:07] Josh: Um, and they’re like, yeah, most of the double blacks are just not on the table.
[00:40:10] Ian: Right. And the funny thing about the double black diamonds in, uh, at Whitefish is that almost all of them were the, the type of thing where it’s like, okay, this is rated as a double black diamond.
Because y you’re like in a bunch of un groomed, almost like uncharted territory. It feels like there’s a ton of trees and everything. Um, and you’re, yeah, and you’re kind of like figuring out your own way down. And for me personally, that meant well, my skis are completely perpendicular to the direction of the slope, and I’m just slowly letting myself like rock back and forth to get down.
Like, yeah, yeah, I didn’t want to die. Josh,
[00:40:54] Josh: Blame Brandon. He was the one. I would’ve not. He was, I appreciate it though. ’cause he pushed me at least to like do more of the, the blacks or the double blacks. Right. That I normally wouldn’t do.
[00:41:05] Ian: He likes the really technical stuff.
[00:41:07] Josh: He does. Yeah, he does. And like I’m on a board, so it’s even harder on like the mogul.
Mm-hmm. The super steep mogul ones. Mm-hmm. Or like, we didn’t, we didn’t do any of the real cliffs. Right. But the ones where like they’re so steep that like I definitely at certain times would just be like. I gotta send it. I just gotta send it and pick my line a little bit and hope for the best. Yeah, and I definitely felt like I fell the most, ’cause I was just like, I’m not gonna sit here.
I’m not gonna like take an hour to get down this one little section to come out clean. Um. Where I was like, I just had a couple, like maybe 10 foot drops or whatever, where I like missed it and then fell. Mm-hmm. I don’t know. It’s probably exaggerating, but it did. But the nice thing is, is that everyone, all the locals were complaining about the snow.
Yes. And whatever. But I found,
[00:41:54] Ian: and, and apologizing to us about it. Right.
[00:41:57] Josh: Oh yeah. Definitely apologizing.
[00:41:58] Ian: That was very cute.
[00:41:59] Josh: But I found that, I was like, oh, I was worried. ’cause like I went out to Breckenridge in December and like that did. Kind of suck.
[00:42:05] Ian: Mm.
[00:42:05] Josh: Of like, you know, it’s scraped out, whatever. And like Whitefish was never that busy either, which was nice.
It’s a little harder to get to, but every time I fell, I took no fall damage because like I would just push like seven inches of snow, you know?
[00:42:19] Ian: Yeah.
[00:42:20] Josh: So I was like, oh, this is, this is kind of okay. I’m not like. I don’t know, like knocking it.
[00:42:25] Ian: Yeah.
[00:42:25] Josh: You know? Yeah.
[00:42:26] Ian: But like, yeah, the, the perspective of the locals or folks who like go to Whitefish on a regular basis is like, okay, most years they have so much snow that, like the pine trees up on the, on the mountain, you cannot see a single needle on them because they’re just completely.
Encased in snow. Right. They, they call ’em the snow ghosts.
[00:42:48] Josh: Oh yeah, the snow ghosts. ’cause then it was, was the other, the lift was like the Ghost,
[00:42:51] Ian: the Snow Ghost Express, yes. Yeah. Um, and I, I think the, the way that this affected our experience the most is that like, while we did have enough snow on all of the runs that were up near the peak, near the summit, right?
[00:43:07] Josh: Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:07] Ian: Closer to Base Lodge, there were a few runs that were closed. Because there wasn’t enough snow on them for, for it to be safe. Um, and so the, like, the main thing is that it, it made way finding a little bit harder, especially if we wanted to go to one particular, the, the Snow Ghost Express chair, chairlift four.
That was the one that was like, there was only one way to get there. And if we made a wrong turn, it would be like, well, we kind of, we missed our opportunity to get there. We have to take a different Lift to get up to the top, which was fine. There was always a way to get up to the top, like,
[00:43:43] Josh: right.
[00:43:43] Ian: Yeah.
They, they, they haven’t made any, like dead ends.
[00:43:48] Josh: No. No,
[00:43:49] Ian: but I found like the, the elevation felt totally fine. You know,
[00:43:55] Josh: that was the nice thing.
[00:43:56] Ian: Yeah.
[00:43:56] Josh: Every time I go out west, usually in Colorado, like you’re at like 10,000 feet. Yeah. And you’re going up to 13 or 14,000 feet. Right. And like, you just feel dehydrated.
You get some people get altitude sickness. Mm-hmm. My watch is always screaming at me regardless. I, I could be fully hydrated and get a good night’s sleep. And it’s like, what the heck did you just do? Like,
[00:44:21] Ian: yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:21] Josh: Um. And then you go outta breath faster. Right. I was like, oh, this was
[00:44:24] Ian: just feeling inexplicably tired.
[00:44:26] Josh: Yeah.
[00:44:26] Ian: Yep.
[00:44:27] Josh: Where I was like, oh, this is actually really nice that like we just,
[00:44:29] Ian: yeah. ’cause the summit at Big Mountain I think is 9,000 feet and it was, it was like, it was lower than where the base camp is for Winter Park.
[00:44:40] Josh: Okay.
[00:44:41] Ian: Like Winter Park starts you higher than, than where,
[00:44:43] Josh: right, right.
[00:44:44] Ian: The top of Whitefish is.
Yeah.
[00:44:46] Josh: Yes.
[00:44:47] Ian: Um, and so for, for us coming from, you know, the Twin Cities is what, 800 feet above sea level, like, uh, felt very appropriate.
[00:44:56] Josh: Right? Well, and then you have the whole train ride that you’re like, I mean, really you don’t climb? I looked it up like you don’t climb until the end of the train ride, but it’s still over the last like three hours that you at least get, or something like that.
Like you get some acclimation there.
[00:45:09] Ian: Okay.
[00:45:09] Josh: Which again is nice that we had that night to sleep.
[00:45:13] Ian: Yes.
[00:45:14] Josh: Um, as well. So it wasn’t nearly as bad and like you said, yeah. You’re just not starting as high. Mm-hmm. Versus every time I’m at like 10,000 feet in Breck and like my body’s just like, whoa.
[00:45:25] Ian: Yep. Yep.
There were quite a few, like Green Circle runs. Um, there were mostly clustered in one area. We didn’t spend a whole lot of time in that area that was closer to the Village. Most of, uh, our runs were like, we went all the way up to the summit and then like worked our way down via two or three different runs to get all the way down to whatever, whichever like, you know, lift we were doing.
And so I feel like this is an appropriate venue for a wide variety of different, uh, uh, ski abilities. Like if you live in the Twin Cities, you probably want to get to the point where you’re very comfortable on Buck Hill before going out to Whitefish. But you know, if you’re comfortable on. The, I would say the blue squares and maybe a little bit of the black diamonds on Buck Hill.
Like, you’re gonna have a great time at Whitefish. You’re gonna have a wide variety of, of different things to do.
[00:46:18] Josh: Right. And I felt like there was enough good long blues at Whitefish.
[00:46:25] Ian: Mm-hmm. That,
[00:46:26] Josh: I don’t know if you guys, but like, I was just like,
[00:46:30] Ian: like you’re talking about like the expressway or whatever they called it.
[00:46:33] Josh: Yeah. Like, I was just carving so hard because it was so fun.
[00:46:37] Ian: Mm. Oh
[00:46:38] Josh: yeah. And like so fast that I was like, you know, which like, I board a lot, but like you could easily stick to a lot of the, there’s enough of those. Mm-hmm. Versus like, I’ve done that, I’ve tried to do that one time at some spot in Vail and I was like, I might die on this now and it’s gonna take me two hours to get down.
[00:46:56] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:56] Josh: So I felt like Whitefish was nice from that, from like an approachable aspect.
[00:47:00] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. One thing at Whitefish that I’ve never really seen anywhere else is how many people there were. Who were hiking up the mountain and then skiing down the mountain, like that was a whole thing.
[00:47:13] Josh: And consistently, ’cause like, I feel like it’s starting to get more popular
[00:47:17] Ian: mm-hmm.
[00:47:17] Josh: Of like skinning and climbing up the mountain.
[00:47:20] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:21] Josh: Um, like when I was just in Breck, a co, a couple weeks after our trip, I met somebody at the hostel who like, she every morning would skin up and then ride down
[00:47:28] Ian: Yeah.
[00:47:29] Josh: We would see the same people.
[00:47:30] Ian: Now what what we mean by that is like you, you put, oh yeah, you put, it’s, it’s like a wrap that you put on the bottom of your skis to give it grippiness.
And so you’re wearing your skis while you’re hiking up the mountain,
[00:47:41] Josh: right.
[00:47:41] Ian: And then you just take that skin off of the skis and then
[00:47:44] Josh: Yeah, you peel ’em off
[00:47:45] Ian: and then, and then you ski down the mountain.
[00:47:47] Josh: Right? Yeah. No, there’s a lot of people doing that. Like it was always like. Multiple routes, we’d see like three or four people, like groups of three or four people.
Mm-hmm. Like climbing up the mountain and like the middle of the day too, because I feel like that’s where I normally see it is like either really beginning of the day or the end of the day.
[00:48:02] Ian: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:48:03] Josh: Um, ’cause people want first tracks or the mountain’s closed, but
[00:48:07] Ian: Right.
[00:48:07] Josh: They’re trying to get a workout in after work.
[00:48:09] Ian: Right.
[00:48:09] Josh: Not like, this is my entire day of just skinning and then riding down.
[00:48:14] Ian: Yeah. I don’t know.
[00:48:15] Josh: I’m not a hiker, so I’m never but interested. But shout out to y’all. I mean, you get to save a ski pass too. You don’t have to
[00:48:23] Ian: Right, right.
[00:48:23] Josh: Buy a ticket. So,
[00:48:24] Ian: and actually, I mean, speaking of the ski passes, I thought it was very affordable considering like what?
Like the venue that you’re at.
[00:48:31] Josh: Well, and that’s what was nice. It was. It’s an independent mountain.
[00:48:34] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:35] Josh: So it’s not on the Icon or the Epic passes. Mm-hmm. But yeah, tickets weren’t crazy. It’s not oversold. Were like, there were some people maybe on that, I guess it was Sunday the first, right. ’cause we did Sunday, Monday.
[00:48:49] Ian: Yeah.
[00:48:50] Josh: They had mostly express lifts, which was nice.
[00:48:52] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:53] Josh: So, but we didn’t really wait that long ever.
[00:48:56] Ian: Yeah.
[00:48:56] Josh: Except for like, maybe one. Um, but that was was nice too. ’cause it’s not nearly as many people either. So I feel like you got a lot of value of like, and the tickets weren’t that expensive. Right.
Versus like, you’d be amazed like Breckenridge or Vail or some of those places, like a day ticket, particularly how late we bought our tickets, it’d be like $200 to $300 for a single day of a lift ticket.
[00:49:21] Ian: Yeah.
[00:49:21] Josh: And I think we paid, like, what did we pay? Like I paid $188 for a two day lift ticket.
[00:49:27] Ian: There you go.
[00:49:28] Josh: And it was, we only were there for two days to ski, but all of, I think their passes, depending on how many days you bought, even though with the two day ticket, you had three days to use it.
[00:49:40] Ian: Yes.
[00:49:41] Josh: Yeah. And then I think, I think that’s scaled up. So like if you were doing four days of skiing, you could probably take a day or two break.
[00:49:48] Ian: Yeah. And I think if, if we were going to do this again, I might entertain the idea of like having a rest day in the middle, in between two ski days. Um, ’cause I, I think I would like to explore town a little bit more, see some of those cute shops and like go to visit some of the parks that they have and whatever.
[00:50:07] Josh: And yeah, I think that was the big bummer about the transit not running on. ‘Cause the one time we wanted to do it was gonna end up being like a 10 minute drop our clothes Right. And get back. But our bus got so delayed if it didn’t happen. Mm-hmm. Versus like, I feel like in the other towns, like you can still get from your hotel to town and still see it.
[00:50:27] Ian: Right.
[00:50:28] Josh: You know, as long as you leave at like 3:30 -4 and not stay too long.
[00:50:33] Ian: Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
[00:50:34] Josh: But yeah, no, it is nice sometimes to have a rest day or
[00:50:36] Ian: the views from the top. Absolutely gorgeous.
[00:50:39] Josh: Yes.
[00:50:39] Ian: You can see in both directions we talked about towards town, there’s like just flat as far as you can see, but then in the other direction, like you’re looking into like Glacier National Park, like that direction and it’s, it’s a national forest over there, so like.
Very little development that’s happened out there. Um,
[00:51:01] Josh: right. The lake as well.
[00:51:03] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:03] Josh: Yeah. No, it was gorgeous.
[00:51:05] Ian: Loved it. I definitely, I think that this is, um, I’m probably gonna keep exploring new places that I haven’t been to Carfree, you know, for skiing, I’m thinking Spirit Mountain might be the one next year.
’cause I’ve never been there before. Um,
[00:51:22] Josh: Spirit is,
[00:51:23] Ian: that’s up by Duluth. Um,
[00:51:25] Josh: okay.
[00:51:26] Ian: I haven’t, I haven’t looked at what the local transit, like how close that gets you to the ski resort, but um, you know, obviously getting to Duluth itself is pretty easy
[00:51:35] Josh: right?
[00:51:36] Ian: By Jefferson Lines.
[00:51:37] Josh: Yeah. No, yeah. ’cause that’s always my thing of when I’m trying to look at new places of like, how do I get around?
[00:51:42] Ian: Right.
[00:51:42] Josh: Or like, what are the logistics essentially?
[00:51:44] Ian: Yep.
[00:51:44] Josh: Of I was able to do Salt Lake. That was fun. Um. Whistler, I think is maybe on my list of, ’cause I think you can get like a bus or something from Vancouver. So I was like, if there was a better way to get from here to the Canadian rail, VIA rail or whatever, I would totally do that.
[00:52:04] Ian: Yeah, you gotta go to Seattle. I mean, see take Empire Builder to Seattle and then take the um, what is it, the Cascades. Yeah. Goes up to Vancouver,
[00:52:16] Josh: I guess. Yeah, you could do that. I was thinking the one, like the VIA rail that runs all across Canada,
[00:52:21] Ian: right? The, the, the one that’s called the Canadian,
[00:52:23] Josh: is that what it’s called?
[00:52:23] Ian: It is.
[00:52:24] Josh: Okay. Yeah. There’s not a good way to get, I looked into that at one point, right? And I was like, no. So
[00:52:30] Ian: if you like being behind schedule, I hear that that one is, uh, even worse than Amtrak, so.
[00:52:35] Josh: Well, yeah, and like we, we really were only behind schedule. I mean, we were behind schedule. Like 45 minutes from the, the Spokane connection.
[00:52:48] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:48] Josh: One, I think the one coming from Seattle was late or something. And so that pushed them back a little bit.
[00:52:52] Ian: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[00:52:53] Josh: And they kind of made up that time, um, getting to us. I think we were like an hour delayed when we got picked up, but then we made it up a, like initially, but then the whole ride home.
Like there was a huge snowstorm, right. Is what ended up hitting Minneapolis high wind. We had like the whole 24 hour train ride essentially.
[00:53:11] Ian: Yeah.
[00:53:11] Josh: The high winds and the snowstorm and the winds made us slow down.
[00:53:16] Ian: Yep.
[00:53:17] Josh: We were like speed restricted. Mm-hmm. It wasn’t even freight, which is usually the problem.
[00:53:20] Ian: Right.
[00:53:21] Josh: Or like Spokane, like five hours behind ’cause of an engine issue or something like that. At the start of the line.
[00:53:26] Ian: Well, there was an engine issue. Uh,
[00:53:28] Josh: I guess there was an engine
[00:53:29] Ian: because when the, when the train pulled up, two whitefish. It had a BNSF engine at the front. That’s
[00:53:35] Josh: right.
[00:53:35] Ian: Yep. Yeah,
[00:53:36] Josh: yeah. That was the, yeah, like the 50 minute or whatever delay from, on the start, but
[00:53:41] Ian: gave us enough time to, you know, enjoy our continental breakfast instead of having to like
[00:53:45] Josh: true
[00:53:46] Ian: grab and go.
[00:53:47] Josh: I, I really didn’t mind being an hour late on the way initially on the way.
[00:53:50] Ian: Yeah.
[00:53:51] Josh: It was the extra two and a half. I think we got up to four and a half, something like that.
Maybe with time change and then three and a half or something. That’s where I was like, okay,
[00:53:58] Ian: yeah.
[00:53:59] Josh: This is a bummer. I knew. I knew there was obviously the chance.
[00:54:03] Ian: Yeah.
[00:54:03] Josh: So,
[00:54:04] Ian: yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s the other main lesson to, to take away is like, okay, just plan on not doing anything else for the rest of the day.
And you’ll be fine. You’ll be happy, right?
[00:54:16] Josh: Yeah, exactly.
[00:54:18] Ian: Um, so Josh, yeah, I, I’m thinking this could be an annual trip. What are you thinking?
[00:54:24] Josh: I think so. I think it worked really well. Was really cost effective too.
[00:54:29] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:29] Josh: The terrain was a lot of fun.
[00:54:31] Ian: Yeah. And everything like scales up. Well in terms of like if we wanted to have a group, you know, three people going versus 10 people going, like, you know, all of the individual pieces of this trip will work just as well.
Right. Yeah,
[00:54:47] Josh: no, for sure. I’m like, the train’s gonna have enough seats. Mm-hmm. That’s not,
[00:54:51] Ian: especially if we plan this earlier. Yeah. Then, you know, we can jump on the tickets earlier.
[00:54:57] Josh: Well, and that’s the only thing I’m curious about is we were two days too early on buying our train tickets and if you had waited, they finally did the annual rail pass sale and it was actually cheaper than our train ticket,
[00:55:12] Ian: which is wild.
[00:55:13] Josh: Which granted, that’s the cheapest it’s ever been, so it probably won’t be that cheap next year. But yes, we should all get on it. But if you are going to do another train trip or two, you might wanna hold out for a rail pass if you know you’re gonna travel in February.
[00:55:29] Ian: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Do they and they, and they do a rail pass sale.
[00:55:33] Josh: Like it’s, it’s like every January on like, okay, now, now I’m learning the, the schedule. Um,
[00:55:41] Ian: it, it’s the kind of, you just gotta know.
[00:55:42] Josh: You do just kind of gotta know. Yeah. Yeah. So, because it’s slow season, so it makes sense.
[00:55:47] Ian: Sure, sure. But yeah, slow season, especially when you got high winds.
[00:55:52] Josh: Yeah. It was, it was slow.
[00:55:55] Ian: Well, I’m definitely, I, I had so much fun with this trip. I loved every minute of it. We had basic, like almost no hiccups. Um,
[00:56:05] Josh: no, it was very smooth.
[00:56:06] Ian: Yeah. And, and you know, town was cute. Skiing was fun. Transportation fit right in with like what I want. Um, and, uh, didn’t get in trouble at, at work.
[00:56:22] Josh: True, true.
[00:56:22] Ian: So definitely, yeah. Looking forward to, to making this a, a bit of an annual tradition.
[00:56:27] Josh: Yeah.
[00:56:27] Ian: Yeah.
[00:56:27] Josh: No, it was fun. Please. Join us. It would be a lot of fun.
[00:56:32] Ian: The first step is emailing us, I guess, because that’s, that’s how people get in touch with me these days is, “Hey, I heard a great thing on your podcast. Do you wanna talk about it?”
[00:56:41] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, oh, I got one more question.
[00:56:46] Ian: Yeah.
[00:56:47] Josh: Or I guess I got more of a joke. Okay.
[00:56:49] Ian: Oh, Jesus.
[00:56:51] Josh: When does a snowboarder take a nap, Ian?
[00:56:53] Ian: When does a snowboarder take a nap, Josh?
[00:56:56] Josh: When their skier friend loses their ski.
[00:56:59] Ian: Yeah. We don’t need to talk more about it.
It wasn’t a bad crash, everybody. I just, uh, was going slow around some trees and one of my skis got snagged on a branch that was like half hiding under, you know, so it was a very slow motion. Like, woo, the ski popped off and now I gotta stop and I gotta go back and get it and we gotta put it back on.
[00:57:24] Josh: But I think you were, you were also stuck in the like six inches of snow.
[00:57:30] Ian: Is it? Yeah, it was pretty, it a steep,
[00:57:31] Josh: it took you a minute was,
[00:57:32] Ian: it was a steep spot of snow, so I had to like figure out how to support my weight while also like, you know, so, so that I could take the weight off of the other ski to release myself so that I could walk back and get the other ski.
Yeah, it was stupid. Yeah, it was. Yeah.
[00:57:47] Josh: Yeah. That was, I remember that was my one, my one good zinger of the weekend.
[00:57:51] Ian: Yeah,
[00:57:51] Josh: because I, I had to give my skier friends some shit because
[00:57:54] Ian: you, you took so many pictures of me, just like on the ground.
[00:58:01] Josh: Ooh, that burst photo, man.
[00:58:02] Ian: Yeah, great.
[00:58:03] Josh: Love it.
[00:58:05] Ian: I deserved it. All right, Josh, thanks for coming on the show.
[00:58:09] Josh: Yeah, thanks for having me.
[00:58:12] Ian: And thank you for joining us for this episode of the Streets.mn Podcast. The show is released under a creative commons attribution, non-commercial, non derivative license. So feel free to republish the episode as long as you are not altering it and you are not profiting from it.
The music in this episode is by Erik Brandt and the Urban Hillbilly Quartet. This episode was hosted by me, Ian R. Buck, edited by Parker Seaman, AKA Strongthany, and transcribed by Stina Neel. We’re always looking to feature new voices on the Streets.mn Podcast, so if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [[email protected]].
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