Metro Transit has started rolling out their microtransit service areas, starting in Roseville and Woodbury. Jeb Rach has experience in both areas, let’s check in on what the experience is like!
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Attributions
Our theme song is Tanz den Dobberstein, and our interstitial song is Puck’s Blues. Both tracks used by permission of their creator, Erik Brandt. Find out more about his band, The Urban Hillbilly Quartet, on their website.
This episode was hosted, edited, and transcribed by Ian R Buck. We’re always looking to feature new voices on the show, so if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [email protected].
Transcript
[00:00:00] Jeb: It’s definitely been a major improvement in transit availability and accessibility to the things I want to be able to do. And it’s basically made transit from a, like for my work commute is like a, a last resort if I really need to, to like, oh, this is an option and like it’s not a big deal, especially in the afternoons to just like take Transit home.
[00:00:24] Ian: Welcome to the Streets.mn Podcast, the show where we highlight how transportation and land use can make our communities better places. Coming to you from the beautiful Wedge neighborhood of Minneapolis, Minnesota. I am your host, Ian R Buck. Metro Transit has rolled out their first two suburban micro transit service areas after their pilot program in North Minneapolis was a success. The two service areas are in Roseville and Woodbury, and fortunately for us, Streets.mn board member Jeb Rach lives near one of them and works in the other. So let’s chat with him about how the initial rollout has gone.
I guess before we talk about Metro Micro, like what was your commute like before?
[00:01:12] Jeb: So my commute was, and usually still is driving to work.
[00:01:17] Ian: Oh, okay.
[00:01:17] Jeb: I drive about, it’s about a 30 minute drive, 20 to 30 minutes, depending on traffic and all of that. The, the biggest struggle was before Metro Micro is that.
We’re a one car household and there’s two of us.
[00:01:31] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:31] Jeb: So if my spouse needed the car for a trip or something, I basically either had Uber or I was looking at a 25 to 30 minute walk to a reasonable bus schedule that didn’t involve me, like from work that didn’t involve me. Doing a one hour loop on a mini bus.
That honestly made me a little nauseous because I just do not do well on a windy mini bus route.
[00:01:58] Ian: So the, the, that mini bus route, but that, that was a fixed route. Yeah. Schedule. Right. Which, which number is that?
[00:02:04] Jeb: Uh, 227.
[00:02:05] Ian: Okay. Yeah. Um. I’m not nearly as familiar with like the, the stuff up in the Roseville area other than, you know, the A line and the 30.
[00:02:16] Jeb: Yeah. Yeah. The 227 does bi-directional in the midday, but for whatever reason during rush hour, it only goes in one direction and the one direction that it runs near my work. Is to the opposite of Rosedale. So in order to get to Rosedale, I basically have to go all the way up to Shoreview, then it becomes a 225 and loop all the way back down to Rosedale Mall.
[00:02:40] Ian: No, that’s the worst.
[00:02:41] Jeb: Yes. So, and I don’t know if that’s changing in the future, but. I, that’s how it’s been for as long as I’ve worked there.
[00:02:50] Ian: Right. Well, and I mean, even if it changes in the future, like you have Metro Micro as an option now. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, let’s get into that. So for, for those who aren’t familiar, Metro Micro is a, uh, I mean the, the whole like micro transit concept is: the transit agency will have an app.
That you can, uh, it, it think like a dial aide system, but like modernized, right? So that you’re using Yeah. Most users are gonna be using an app to request, request a ride. They just put in like, here’s where I am, here’s where I want to go. And then, uh, the system figures out like, okay, which, which operator is gonna be driving over there and picking them up?
Um, they are shared ride, you know, so unlike, uh, an Uber or a Lyft, you. You know, the bus might like pick people up or drop other people off along the way. Um, most of them use, uh, the like 20 foot long little mini buses. Uh, yeah. Which is exactly what Metro Micro is. Um,
[00:03:54] Jeb: first I’ll just add, when you were talking about dial ride, I have used TransitLink dial ride once in a while as an alternative to get home.
Mm-hmm. Because while there is fixed route, there is a stipulation that I was made aware of that. If it is considered too long by fixed route service, transit link is theoretically eligible.
[00:04:15] Ian: Oh, interesting.
[00:04:15] Jeb: But, um, it, it’s like basically because there’s that really long circuitous route that takes an hour, that’s what basically makes it eligible.
And then there’s a bunch of, it takes another hour to an hour and a half, um, but it’s really difficult to get a ride and you have to schedule it at least a day in advance. Right, right. And I would say I probably only have about a 10 to 15% success rate of actually getting a ride. I’m guessing because mine is lower priority because I am not a regular rider and I theoretically had fixed route.
[00:04:47] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:04:48] Jeb: Um, so, and it was also on the edge of the service area for the place where I lived. But regardless.
[00:04:56] Ian: And, uh, you know, Metro Transit to their credit is like keeping as many parts of the like. The user experience, the, the, the, the features that are offered are as consistent with fixed route services as possible, right?
We have bike racks on the front of the buses. Um, they are ADA accessible, um, you know, the, the fair structure is, uh, matched with like express buses. So, um. Currently in 2025, that means that it’s uh, uh, $2.50 during non rush hour, and then it’s, is it $3 even?
[00:05:33] Jeb: $3.25 during rush hour. Yep.
[00:05:36] Ian: There you go.
[00:05:36] Jeb: At least that’s what it’s supposed to be.
[00:05:39] Ian: Right? That’s a juicy statement. What does that mean, Jeb?
[00:05:44] Jeb: So when I say theoretically, I don’t think I’ve ever actually paid more than. The local route for a ride, the local pricing for a ride, I always use my go-to card. Mm-hmm. And every time I’ve ridden. Either the go-to card reader has just not worked at all.
I would say that’s about half the rides and about the other half the rides, it was programmed just for the local price, not the express price.
[00:06:13] Ian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s, and that’s, you know, the operator who sits down in the seat is the one who like pushes the buttons and, and sets the fare card reader to, you know, tell it like which type of fare it’s supposed to be charging.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it, that’s always fun. Like I have encountered that a few times on like Route 94 as well, which, you know, is one of those routes that’s like, it feels like it’s in this liminal space, you know, where it’s like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It, it, it travels on a highway, but also like you’re staying within the urban core.
Yeah. And you know, and in the future it is going to be local route price structure because it’ll be the Gold Line. Um, yeah, once, once, uh, the Gold Line extension comes into play in 2027. Uh, but like, you know, every once in a while you’ll encounter like a driver who’s like, yeah, yeah, no, I’m just local route.
It’s fine.
[00:07:07] Jeb: This should be a local route. Yeah.
[00:07:08] Ian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so, okay, so I think I remember like when you and I were chatting about this just a couple of weeks after Metro Micro opened in, in Roseville, uh. You were saying that like a lot of the operators, it seemed like they did not have a whole lot of experience with like operating, uh, for Metro Transit type buses because, you know, this is a service that is contracted out. Yeah. Um, I see in the picture behind you that, uh, Schmitty & Sons are the ones who are operating that particular, of course, like, you know, Schmitty & Sons is a company that also does like school buses and stuff, right?
Yep. And so, uh, it, it kind of makes sense that like, oh yeah, we’ve got this new contract, we need more operators to drive, you know, these Metro Micro buses and, um, you know, we, so you probably are encountering some, you know, established school bus drivers who have never had to like, uh, charge a fare.
[00:08:09] Jeb: Yeah, yeah.
And I think I’ve had, I’ve had at least one driver where like the, they switched from a completely different career to driving for Metro Micro. Um, I don’t remember what exactly it was, but I did have a driver on the first day who was like. The, I had training and then this was the first time I’ve driven about bus in any sort of passenger service before.
[00:08:34] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:08:35] Jeb: Um, good driver and all that. I wasn’t worried at all because like unlike Uber and Lyft, they have much more comprehensive background checks. They’re actually trained on the area. You have cameras all over the place.
[00:08:49] Ian: Right. And a CDL holder is gonna be held to a very high standard for, you know.
Yeah. Like, it’s surprisingly easy to lose a commercial driver’s license.
[00:09:01] Jeb: Yeah. Yes. I felt very safe, even though it was his first day picking up passengers.
[00:09:08] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, um, okay, so, so fare structure, uh, is… mushy. Uh.
[00:09:16] Jeb: Yeah. Yes. Yes. I, I I don’t know if day passes work, it would be one of my things where I’d be curious to know.
I just don’t Oh, interesting. Really use that. I, ’cause I always just have my go-to car and I find it simpler to just tap away. Right. And just let the system figure it out on the backend.
[00:09:32] Ian: Yeah. I think, um, that’s something I can definitely look up. ’cause it, it should just be like whatever covers express buses will also cover this.
Yeah. Um, yeah.
[00:09:42] Jeb: As far as I can tell, like transfers work good both ways. Mm-hmm. Like if I pay on the micro, I get the transfer. If I go from micro to mini or to, if I go from regular route to micro, I get the transfer there as well. Mm-hmm. All works pretty seamlessly. Yep, yep, yep. Um, the one thing I will say that’s kind of, that I think would be very confusing for the novice rider is that you either need a go-to card.
You, um, you can pay cash on board. Mm-hmm. Or, but if you wanna pay with credit or debit card, you can’t do it in the Micro app. You have to download the separate Metro Transit, ah, app mm-hmm. And pay for your fare in the Metro Transit app, which is completely separate from the Micro app.
[00:10:30] Ian: Right. And then you, you hold up that screen with like the pulsing blue circle.
Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:10:36] Jeb: Yeah. So if you’re like brand new to the system and you are someone who doesn’t carry around a lot of cash, um, like I do, um, you are kind of like having to juggle two different apps and it’s not particularly intuitive, right. Um, right. And I, I’m guessing that was intentional for micro transit, but there, I know with the vendor, because I think it’s the same vendor for MVTA and a few other ones, you can have the option to pay in the app.
[00:11:06] Ian: Okay, so when you say vendor, you mean like, like the software developer who made the app?
[00:11:11] Jeb: Right. I actually, I know you can because I’ve used, yeah. The people that make that software, I believe also make the software. For where my spouse grew up in central Iowa, and I’ve used that app a couple of times.
Mm-hmm. And I just pay right in that same app. So, um, I, I’m guessing that was an intentional choice, so that way they, like if you’re transferring the fixed route, it wasn’t a whole separate system and all of that, but it is not the clearest and most intuitive. Right. If you’re a brand new rider.
[00:11:39] Ian: Now, speaking of the app, um, they changed app vendors.
I think they were using like Via before and now they’re using Spare or vice versa? Anyway. Yep. When they switched, um, one significant change that happened was the, the Metro Micro app now has a, like, it has the Metro Transit trip planner built into it, and the trip planner will, you know, offer you a Metro Micro ride if that, you know, makes like as a transfer.
Yeah, at a planned time and, you know, and so you can like book a ride, you know, like if you’re starting in Woodbury and you’re going to be going to Roseville, you can, you know, tell it like, yeah, I, I want to go to this place in Roseville. And it will tell you like, oh yeah, like take the Gold Line and then the, the Green Line and then the A Line, and then, you know, take Metro Micro.
And I assume that it, like, it books your ride for the time that you, that you know, you are expected to be arriving. At
[00:12:42] Jeb: Yes.
[00:12:42] Ian: Rosedale, uh, transit Center. Yeah.
[00:12:46] Jeb: I find that to ultimately be more hassle than it’s worth, actually.
[00:12:50] Ian: Oh, interesting. Okay.
[00:12:51] Jeb: Because it has no sense of good transfer points and it just will pick a random bus stop.
Like if I’m going, like, if I’m going from my work to home, um, like the most logical option is micro to A Line Uhhuh. So. I much prefer to transfer at Rosedale because it’s a major transfer point, right? Right. There’s a shelter, there’s an indoor shelter if I need it. There’s a amenities, it’s relatively quiet compared to like where it wants me to transfer, which is County Road B, and it doesn’t even try to pull me into the county road B. If I look at it correctly, it like deviates, it like tries to drop me off on the north side of county Road B. ’cause county road B is the line in Roseville, and then I have to like cross county road B at the light and then go to the shelter.
[00:13:44] Ian: On foot. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:45] Jeb: On foot. Yeah. And I did try that once just to see it and it just would not accept the ride. Like it said, no drivers available and then like. Five seconds later, I just picked just say, just get me to Rosedale. And there was a driver in two minutes.
[00:14:00] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you would think, from their perspective, like they would want to consolidate as many Metro Micro riders to, to one pickup or drop off location as possible. And like Rosedale Transit Center is the logical place for that.
[00:14:17] Jeb: Yes, and I’ve noticed that in Woodbury too. Like I had an appointment at a doctor’s office that was kind of to the west of like Woodbury Mall area. Area, or I forget like whatever that mall area is with the Target and stuff.
And it would just drop, like it was just trying to get me to transfer at a random point on the 323, rather than having me take the 323 over to Woodbury Theater. And then take Micro.
[00:14:45] Ian: Mm-hmm. Which
[00:14:46] Jeb: actually burned me in the end because like, I didn’t request my ride until I got to Woodbury. Mm-hmm. Because you, unless you’re attached to.
Uh, transit route, you can’t request the ride in advance. You must have it pick up now.
[00:15:01] Ian: Hmm mm-hmm.
[00:15:01] Jeb: And for whatever reason, like at this time in the morning, it, like, there were not enough drivers, so it was gonna be kind of that full 20 minutes and maybe even a little more. And my appointment was in 30 minutes, so the bus would not have made it to my appointment in time.
Mm-hmm. So I wound up having to do a Lyft for that last little leg.
[00:15:19] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:20] Jeb: Instead, which was kind of frustrating.
[00:15:22] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So it sounds like the, the algorithm needs a little tweaking for the trip planner.
[00:15:28] Jeb: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:15:29] Ian: But like, I, I am glad that they, you know, that they thought of that feature. I, well, I mean, they didn’t think of it first.
Yeah. Like MVTA Connect has had that feature in their app for the whole time. Um, but like it, you know, when I’m comparing like up until now, uh, the only two like. Micro transit suburban experiences that I’ve had where MVTA Connect and, uh, Southwest Prime, and like the thing that has always frustrated me about Southwest Prime is like trying to plan ahead of, of being like, okay, the 6 is going to drop me off within their service area at this time.
And I need to think about like, okay, how far in advance should I go into the app and request a ride so that it will be there a few minutes after I get there, but won’t get there before I get there because if they get there and I’m not there, then they’re gonna be mad at me and they’re just gonna leave me behind.
[00:16:26] Jeb: I’ve done a Mall of America so many times with Southwest Prime.
[00:16:29] Ian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:16:29] Jeb: Oh yeah. Yeah. I do agree that like it is kind of nice that they put the trip planner in, I think, and I think it makes a lot of sense for at least what my understanding is of North Minneapolis, where like there isn’t really a central transit center, so to speak. Um, and it’s all kind of like, so there you basically, it’s just gotta be whatever works best for the route on where you transfer to fixed route. So it’s just gonna be at a bus stop or like a C or D Line stop, which makes sense. But when it’s translating to the suburban market, it feels like it hasn’t taken into account quite yet moving all the riders to a central transfer point like Rosedale or
[00:17:14] Ian: Right.
[00:17:14] Jeb: Woodbury Theater or, um, the park & ride over in Woodbury, the new park and ride for the Gold Line.
[00:17:21] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, the other, so the other reason that like trying to use Southwest Prime always makes me nervous is that, like, I know that there, the wait times are like really unpredictable and I, I attribute that mostly to the fact that like.
I feel like they try to have a service area that’s too large and, you know, so like, you never know, you know? Oh, is is a, is a bus going to have to like, take somebody clear across the entire, you know?
[00:17:52] Jeb: Yes, I have done that one where I’ve taken it clear from Edina to Shakopee.
[00:17:58] Ian: Yeah. No, I, on Saturday, so I’ve done, I’ve done the Southwest Prime Edge from the uh, Mall of America Transit Center to the church that’s near Carver Park Reserve because I wanted to go camping and I was like, I am. Yeah. I’m the A-hole right now. I’m the one who’s using this service in the most suboptimal way and they have to deal with it.
[00:18:24] Jeb: Yes. The zones are quite a bit smaller with Metro Micro from what I’ve noticed.
Like Yeah.
[00:18:31] Ian: And, and has that translated into a good user experience, like is the wait time. Like, is it not too long? Are the wait times like predictable? Is it, you know, is it kind of fairly consistent? How is it feeling so far?
[00:18:45] Jeb: I’ll say, other than that one outlier, I have basically always been able to get a ride within five to 10 minutes.
[00:18:52] Ian: Oh, nice.
[00:18:53] Jeb: Like it’s, it’s very predictable in that fashion, which is why I’m, I think that outlier stuck out so much is frustrating because that. It was almost to the point, like their advertising says that their goal is within 20 minutes.
[00:19:05] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:19:06] Jeb: And like, I’ve usually gone it within five to 10 and often five, like if I’m getting picked up from work, because my work is not that far driving from Rosedale, but I think they also kind wait near some of the senior homes a little bit further north.
Mm-hmm. Um, and both of those are relatively close to my work. Trying not to dox myself too much here, but yeah, like I can, I often get a ride within five minutes.
[00:19:35] Ian: Yeah. Okay. Good, good, good. Yeah. ’cause the, the North Minneapolis, uh, service area, um, I mean I haven’t used it in a minute, but my understanding is that their wait times have kind of consistently been creeping up and you know, a lot of them are a 20 minute wait, uh, nowadays.
So yeah, it’s always a tough thing to dial in.
[00:19:56] Jeb: Yeah, so far I’ve had pretty good experience with, um, Woodbury and Roseville on that account.
[00:20:02] Ian: Mm-hmm. Good, good, good.
Um, so we’ve talked about you using this, uh, to get to and from work. Um, actually, actually, let me, let me, so, so we, we briefly touched on like what was your commute like before, and I never formally asked you.
Uh, is, is this like. Well established. This is like your normal commute. Now do you use Metro Micro on a regular basis, or are you still like driving most times, but now you have this option for when your spouse needs the car?
[00:20:32] Jeb: It’s, it’s the latter.
[00:20:34] Ian: Okay.
[00:20:34] Jeb: Where I drive most days because it is still an hour and a half each way.
[00:20:39] Ian: Right.
[00:20:39] Jeb: Versus less generally less than a half hour by car.
[00:20:43] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:44] Jeb: Um, so I still, since we have the car, it’s. Even if we didn’t it, like, it’s kind of hard, especially for me in the morning to wanna wake up, to be ready to go by 6:30 in the morning versus 7:30.
[00:20:57] Ian: Because it’s a, it’s like what, three fixed routes and then also Metro Micro.
Yeah. Right.
[00:21:03] Jeb: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a chunky commute. It’s one where even with Micro, it’s a chunky commute, but it is extremely nice to have that option as a backup. It’s a lot easier, especially in the afternoon where. Uh, I don’t mind as much, a little bit longer wind down from work where I can be like, yeah, just take the car, um, and I’ll just take the Micro home.
[00:21:25] Ian: Right, right. And I wonder if, um, you know, once the Gold Line extension is in place, if that’s gonna change the equation because then. Would you be able to take like goldline and then transfer to the A line and then, you know, that’s, that’s like two fairly high speed and frequent. Yeah.
[00:21:46] Jeb: Yeah. Especially, yeah. Um, that should help, I would expect, depend. I mean obviously it depends on what it looks like once everything’s in place.
[00:21:55] Ian: Right. But, right.
[00:21:56] Jeb: Yeah. I think that’s definitely going to be a helpful…
[00:22:00] Ian: And, and they are being pretty smart about like where they have been planning these Metro Micro service areas, you know, like these first two are anchored by a dedicated right of way BRT, the very first one that we have in the Twin Cities and an arterial BRT route, you know, so like they know that having fast and frequent, uh, fixed route service to connect people to and from the microservice is essential. For the, for the success of the microservice.
[00:22:37] Jeb: Yes.
[00:22:38] Ian: You also had told me that you have taken some family members on Metro Micro to like go out for, you know, like to dinner at a restaurant or something like that, right?
[00:22:47] Jeb: Yep, yep. We’ve used it to go to Kowalski’s once, both to get groceries and because they actually have a really nice hot bar and stuff.
Mm, very smooth. Um. I did hit the thing again where it likes to just pick a random stop. So like we wound up getting picked up just like, like a random stop on the side of like a stroad. Mm-hmm. Which is not the most pleasant, but we only had to wait for like 30 seconds, so it was fine.
[00:23:12] Ian: Oh, wow. Wow. That’s, yeah.
[00:23:15] Jeb: Yeah, like we had it, it basically was timed right with the transfer. ’cause I had used the transfer planner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The planner thing. So like it worked out fine. But it was a bit annoying that like it decided that the best place to do was transfer was just on the side of a stroad, uh, I think it was Valley Creek.
Okay. Okay. Um, I’m, I’m still learning the names of all the Woodbury things ’cause it’s just like, it’s the main stroad in Woodbury for where I wanna go.
[00:23:39] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I mean, that’s probably where the fixed route bus travels, like Yeah. You know, the more…
[00:23:46] Jeb: Yeah, it goes up. It kind of does a big loop and then it, its last stop is at the Woodbury Theater Park and Ride area.
[00:23:54] Ian: Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:55] Jeb: The one other thing that I have noticed at Rosedale is that there is not signage yet for where the microbus picks up at the Rosedale Transit Center. Oh. Like there’s Gate A, B, and C, and they have all the numbers, but. As far as, at least when I’ve looked, none of them have like a little decal that says Metro Micro.
Mm-hmm. I’ve actually never had to take it from Rosedale to my work, but I’ve seen other people doing it is a little confusing if someone comes up, like there’s not like a specific gate that it uses.
[00:24:29] Ian: Is it, is it actually picking people up at a consistent spot? Like is there a gate that should have that sign?
[00:24:34] Jeb: Yeah, I think Gate C. Okay. I believe it is the one that’s furthest out. Um, is where I’ve been dropped off the most. I noticed people being picked up the most. Mm-hmm. So it would, it would just be nice if they just formalized that and said, this is where the Micro starts and stops at Rosedale Transit Center.
Right. And I would also say ideally, and this is also getting to fixed route a little bit, um, like they would use the 323 and like Micro to have a spot at the Woodlane Drive Park & Ride at the end of the Gold Line. Just to make that transfer a bit easier. Mm-hmm. And to have like, again, a fixed spot where you can kind of do those quote unquote modal shifts from Right, right.
Fixed route or BRT to a smaller local route or to Micro at like a shelter place with heat and all of that, versus just a random street quarter that doesn’t even have a shelter or a bench.
[00:25:27] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I mean, it’s like that, that is the kind of. I hate the word synergy, but you know, like Yeah.
Fitting these things together in a, in a cohesive way. Yeah. Um, that like, you know, obviously Metro Transit staff are aware of this because they had Metro Micro buses like there at the Gold Line opening day Yeah. To kind of show off to people, like, hey, here’s, you know, this connects to this other awesome service.
Yeah. Um, so yeah. Not, not out of the question, that’s for sure.
[00:25:57] Jeb: Yeah. And it would even be nice for them to like. I mean, if they have, have it, I’ve seen this advertised at like a co in, in a couple of other regions. Nowhere in the metro as, as far as I’m aware, maybe MVTA does it, but essentially like if there’s a bus that’s just kind of not, doesn’t have it active ride, it will just wait.
[00:26:19] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:20] Jeb: At the major, at the major transfer point and you can just walk up and ask you for a ride.
[00:26:25] Ian: Mm.
[00:26:25] Jeb: I don’t know how feasible that is or if that would necessarily even be a smart idea. But to some extent it would be cool if you could just like, you just saw your Micro bus waiting there or a Micro bus waiting there and it was like, Hey, can I go to Kowalski’s or can I go to one’s or can I go to Smash Park or wherever you need to go, or can I go to the library?
Right, right. And it would just take you there.
[00:26:48] Ian: Which is kind of it like that’s a thing that happens in like rural dial a ride services. Yeah. Sometimes like, you know. You’ll be on the bus and you’ll be chatting with the driver and you’ll be like, “oh yeah, hey, wait, did I, did I pick the correct drop off point? Like, can you know, can you drop me off at such and such a park?” And they’ll like, you know, radio the dispatch and be like, “Hey, we want, we wanna change the drop off point here. It’s like, oh, okay.” Yeah. So what, um, what kinds of like fun destinations are there in these service areas? Because, I mean, so obviously the, the core purpose of this you know, service is, yeah, we want the community, like the people who live in this service area to be able to use this effectively. Um, but also, like, you know, for me, if I’m visiting the service area, like what kinds of things am I gonna be able to visit? What am I gonna be able to do? Uh, by going there, I see a few different, like nature preserves in the Woodbury area.
[00:27:49] Jeb: Yeah. In Roseville, Smash Park is about an hour north. Um, and it is served technically by the 225, but that runs only once an hour and very limited span of service and not at all on Sundays. Um, so Micro makes it much easier to get there, certainly, and gives you much more time and all that I believe. I’ve never been to the bowling alley in Arden Hills, but there’s one in the service area up in Arden Hills.
[00:28:18] Ian: Oh, wow.
[00:28:19] Jeb: Um, so that’s definitely something that I. You could go to. Um, what else is there in both of those areas? I how they, the plenty of restaurants.
[00:28:29] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Their, um, their maps are definitely like emphasizing a lot of schools that are in the service areas. Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense.
[00:28:37] Jeb: Yeah. I’ve seen, I’ve seen the Micro once in a while go to Roseville High School.
[00:28:42] Ian: Nice. Mm-hmm.
[00:28:43] Jeb: And I’ve just noticed, especially from like in January and February, didn’t see the Micro that much, just kind of going around ’cause. My work, I have a nice little window where I can kind of see traffic going by. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And like I’ve slowly kind of started noticing, oh, the micro’s just around more like kind of zipping around doing whatever it needs to do.
And so it seems like it’s getting more activity and there’s less, like it just kind of sitting in one spot doing, waiting for a ride and more like zipping around, picking people up from the nearby senior home or the coffee shop or wherever, and just getting people where they need to go. Mm-hmm.
Woodbury have the indoor central park. I think it’s being remodeled right now. Um, but the library and then there’s like a central park indoor area Ooh, interesting. That I’ve kind of walked through with like trees and stuff. And it’s kinda, kinda like a mini, uh, Como Conservatory, almost like very mini. Hmm. Um, but it’s a nice little place on that side of the metro if you just like need to get in nature in the winter, like Yeah.
[00:29:45] Ian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I feel like, I feel like there’s a sky zone out there. Is that, is that, am I thinking of the right one in Woodbury?
[00:29:54] Jeb: Maybe. I know that they’re building, or like Topgolf has mentioned that they’re building a Topgolf out in Woodbury. I think one of the.
[00:30:04] Ian: I think that’s right by the, the Gold Line, right?
[00:30:08] Jeb: Yeah. Right by the Gold Line. But you could also use Micro, like if you’re in the Woodbury area outside of it to get there too. I’m just looking what else is kind of further away? In their area.
[00:30:20] Ian: Yeah. Sky Zone. Sky Zone is kind of on the edge of, uh, like the Yeah. Of, of the Metro Micro service area. Okay. Um, yeah, that’s always a fun time.
[00:30:30] Jeb: Yeah. I would say probably they’re like, the biggest thing is there’s a lot of shopping and would bring a lot of chains that just aren’t terribly easily accessible by transit any other way. Mm-hmm. Um. Like, there’s a couple things like, I mean, they’re all chains that are just kind of random and fun, like Cafe Zupas and um, I guess Portillo’s. There’s one in what? There’s one in Roseville now. I’m trying to remember what some of the other ones were, but like, I think there’s, yeah, Cabela’s is actually quite difficult, if I remember right, to get to via transit, but there is one in Woodbury now in the Micro zone.
[00:31:08] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:09] Jeb: Sorry, Alamo Drafthouse claims to still be open in Woodbury. I thought it closed.
[00:31:16] Ian: You heard it here first, folks.
[00:31:18] Jeb: You can go to Alamo Drafthouse, on Micro.
[00:31:22] Ian: And also near the Alamo Drafthouse, um, is the Shriner’s Children’s Hospital, uh, which used to be in St. Paul, but they, they moved out to the, to the suburbs and you know, that’s kind of, um. As close to like a, a destination medical facility that I think we have in the Twin Cities.
Right. Where, you know, ’cause they, they serve patients from, you know, all across the country, possibly the world. Yeah. You know, ’cause they’re, they’re a specialty, uh, place. Mm-hmm. And you know, like one of my siblings has, has gotten services there. And like it’s, you know, when we had to go out there, uh, Shriners had to like book us a, a taxi to get out there. Um, and I wonder if anybody’s, you know, uh, like highlighted to them, like, Hey, you know, like patients can get there pretty easily now by taking like the Gold Line and, and then Metro Micro.
[00:32:20] Jeb: Yeah, I, I’m just looking at their website here real quick. Um, but I would, I would hope that they would at least mention it for like.
People for like the families that maybe are not staying quite as close mm-hmm. To it, or they just like need to get somewhere slightly different. I don’t immediately see it, but I also don’t know if I see, oh, get directions. It just goes to a Google Map.
[00:32:46] Ian: Um, God, I love when websites do that. Like Yeah. Thank you. I know how to, I know how to use Google Maps. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:54] Jeb: But I do think that is, that is something that ideally they. Could call out. Mm-hmm. And I mean, I, I have never gotten services there, so I do not know, but hopefully they’re mentioning it to people, especially for like, even just like getting around town.
If you need to go to the grocery store or you need to go to a convenience store, you need to get, you get to Target or whatever. Right, right. Um, it’s just a nice amenity to have where like, instead of having to wait for an Uber or Lyft or a taxi. Um, you can just call…
[00:33:29] Ian: well, and it’s orders of magnitude cheaper.
[00:33:31] Jeb: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So order of magnitude’s cheaper. You’re getting a good, good, reliable driver. It’s ADA accessible.
[00:33:39] Ian: Mm-hmm. Oh, that’s, yeah, that’s huge for, I, I imagine a lot of the patients at Shriners. Yeah. Looking at these maps is giving me an idea of like, man, I, I should, I should just like, take. Some time during my summer and visit a bunch of the different, like nature preserves and county parks and things, you know, things that are accessible within the various different Micro Transit areas that we have in the Twin Cities.
Um, because I, I gotta get, I gotta do more hiking, you know?
[00:34:08] Jeb: There you go. Yeah. One thing that would be really nice for, I’d like to see them figure out how to do is maybe. Get some sort of connection to Afton. I know that’s way outside of the current Micro zone.
[00:34:22] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:34:23] Jeb: But it would be nice to have some sort of route to get there because it feels like the next closest state park to seven day a week transit service in the Metro.
[00:34:36] Ian: Right, right. Yeah. And as we covered in the, um, transit to Trails episode, like yeah, I would love to see, I think, I think. Afton State Park and Afton Alps are significant enough destinations that I feel like there should be like a shuttle, like, you know, Minnesota DNR should partner with, uh, either, I mean, Metro Transit or like the DNR could like, you know, just, just contract their own shuttle service to have like, oh yeah, like on the weekends, you know, Friday through Sunday, like, bring people out here.
In the morning, you know, have, have a couple of rides that go out in the morning and then a couple rides in the evening that come back in and you know, like that’d be so great.
[00:35:20] Jeb: Yeah. I mean, I’m just looking here real quick. I think it’s only like, you could probably just have one bus run, like an hourly loop basically, right?
Mm-hmm. Cutting them. And you like, as long as you just said like, okay, everyone has to get to Woodlane. We’re picking up at Woodlane ’cause that’s the end of the Gold Line.
[00:35:38] Ian: That would make sense. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:35:39] Jeb: And then you just have them. Pop over to Afton. It’s a 21 minute drive, so you could like do a loop where like it’d be probably 45 minutes.
That’d give the driver a 15 minute layover somewhere.
[00:35:52] Ian: Hey, there we go. Are we transit planters yet?
Can we? Yeah, can we, can we, uh, like submit our dissertation here? It’s a podcast.
[00:36:05] Jeb: [laughter] Yes. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, getting to medical facilities is one of the nice things with Micro, kind of going back to that, like I used it for an appointment nearby and going home, it was really nice to just be able to tell, pick up and only pay two bucks or whatever.
Mm-hmm. And get to where I need to go.
[00:36:24] Ian: Yeah. Um, and some of the other, you know, um, micro transit services like Plymouth, um, you know, I’ve noticed that their service area is the city limits of Plymouth plus, like the North Memorial Hospital. Yeah. And a and a couple of other like, you know, transit centers, uh, in Yeah.
In some neighboring, um, uh, suburbs that it is, you know, it’s like, okay. Some of these are clearly meant for like being able to transfer to other routes. But like the North Memorial is literally just like, oh yeah. We know that We have a lot of residents who like need to be able to get to the hospital.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and so yeah, that’s a, that’s a good, that’s a good thing to provide.
I thought it was kind of amusing when they, like, when they rebranded the service from being like, it was called Metro Transit Micro and now it’s just called Metro Micro and they like changed the livery on all of the buses.
And I, yeah. And I was like, who, like. Why did we feel that this rebrand was necessary?
[00:37:24] Jeb: Yeah. I also, if I’m getting really into the weeds on that, it feels like it’s kind of the polar opposite of the rest of the Micro brand.
[00:37:33] Ian: Okay.
[00:37:34] Jeb: Because like the Micro brand for everything else is all day, which I guess it is all day, but frequent high capacity, fixed route service.
[00:37:43] Ian: Oh, yes. Mm-hmm.
[00:37:45] Jeb: Versus Micro, which is on demand. So theoretically one frequency for your trip.
[00:37:53] Ian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,
[00:37:55] Jeb: low capacity. You’re often the only one on the bus, though. Not always. Um, and just like no fixed route whatsoever.
[00:38:02] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um,
[00:38:04] Jeb: so it’s kinda like the polar opposite of like the Micro, or excuse me, the Metro brand, like the A Line or the Gold Line or the Green or Blue Lines.
[00:38:15] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, you know, as Ian Gaida has highlighted before, like the, the focus on the Metro system is mm-hmm. Is like kind of a problem because the high frequency network does not align perfectly with like the Metro network. Right. You know, from, from a user’s perspective, it’s more important to me to know like which routes are going to arrive soon after I get to the transfer point than it is for me to know like, which one of these has the nice branding name? Um, you know. Yeah. And of course, like. Most of the Metro, uh, routes are high frequency, but the red line is not, you know, so it’s like.
[00:38:57] Jeb: Yeah. I feel like the Red Line is its own political thing, and you could do a whole podcast just on the Red Line and the politics behind it.
[00:39:05] Ian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:39:05] Jeb: I, I just pretend that that’s like the white elephant of the metro system.
[00:39:09] Ian: It, it, I mean, it really is, um, the Yeah. Or the, or the black sheep of the family, right. Um, yeah.
[00:39:16] Jeb: But yeah, it, it is one of those weird things for that, um. It also isn’t on like the zone, at least on like the light rail and stuff, and the Gold Line, the actual zone itself isn’t on the, the system.
Like you can’t see how far you can get. I think I, I’d have to go…
[00:39:36] Ian: You’re talking about like micro is not shown on the zone?
[00:39:38] Jeb: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think it might be listed as like, oh, you can connect here to micro and like it will announce like. You are entering a metro micro zone? Yes. Mm-hmm. But it’s not like you could see like everywhere you can go within the micro zone on the map. It’s just like this is a transfer point to the micro zone, so it’s treated like basically any other bus route.
[00:39:58] Ian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:39:59] Jeb: Which I thi, I mean, it is a very good service and I think it’s on the same level as like a local, uh, suburban local bus service. But I’m not quite sure if.
I guess I don’t really care that much how this branded, it’s just the services that I use. It, it is very weird to see it as part of the metro brand alongside the every 10 minute during weekdays Gold Line. Right.
[00:40:20] Ian: Well, and, and especially like, you know, none of the metro lines are contracted out to other companies.
Right.
[00:40:27] Jeb: Not anymore.
[00:40:28] Ian: Yeah. Uh,
[00:40:29] Jeb: that was a whole kerfuffle in 2020 with the Red Line. ’cause the Red Line used to be operated by MVTA, Schmitty & Sons. And then it switched to Right,
[00:40:38] Ian: right.
[00:40:38] Jeb: Well,
[00:40:38] Ian: yeah. ’cause yeah, ’cause the Red Line wasn’t even, uh. Metro Transit route. It was an MVTA route. Yeah. Yeah. It was operated. Yeah, you are correct.
That is a whole episode all on its own and I definitely wanna delve into that someday.
[00:40:54] Jeb: But yes, at this time all of the metro routes are operated by Metro Transit, and I believe it is staying that way for the foreseeable future.
[00:41:04] Ian: Yeah. Okay.
[00:41:05] Jeb: Good, good, good. I think the. Biggest improvement I would like to see is a way to schedule a ride with it.
Like at like least, at least within a very limited period of time, but not right this second. Mm-hmm. Because sometimes the trip planner just doesn’t do the transfer where it makes the most sense. And so it would be nice to be able to just either say, Hey, I’m gonna be, I would rather transfer at wood or Woodlane.
Or I would rather transfer at Rosedale Mall, um, or I would like to be able to say, okay, I will be there in an hour. Have a bus there as close to an hour as you reasonably can, or I’ll be there in 30 minutes, type of thing. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like where I can say, like, I could schedule it to be like five minutes after the scheduled arrival of the boss or whatever, versus.
Having to gamble that it will be there within five or 10 minutes and it won’t be kind of in a stretch in, it’s like random, once ever, like 10% of the time where it seems like it’s 20 to 25 minutes.
[00:42:10] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. And like beyond that, I also would love to see like more streamlining and obvi. Like, I don’t think this is possible because you can’t, you can’t dictate like what the opt out systems decide to do, but like I would love to see like all of the different micro transit offerings in the Twin Cities have a consistent policy around things like: are you able to schedule rides ahead of time> and you know, like do they accept…
[00:42:42] Jeb: Ideally all in one app.
[00:42:43] Ian: Right? Yeah. Do they accept a transfer from fixed route service to, you know, like, yeah, because there’s all these different, like, I feel like I need like three different Venn diagrams, you know, visualize this.
[00:42:58] Jeb: You see like a 50, you need like a giant Excel spreadsheet just to determine…
[00:43:03] Ian: I need to visualize this as like a five dimensional hypercube. Right. You know?
[00:43:09] Jeb: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, I will say too, Metro Transit, its credit, as far as I’m aware, they’re the only system that reliably takes transfers in both directions.
[00:43:20] Ian: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, um, I, I, I remember being on MVTA Connect one time and they like, you know. They hand you a transfer slip when you get off of MVTA Connect and they’re like, yeah, “this will, this will transfer you to any bus route.” And I look at it and it’s got like the MVTA logo on it, on it and everything.
I’m like, “would this transfer me to like a Metro Transit route?” And they’re like, “no, no, just, just MVTA. But that’s okay because like you’re in MVTA’s transit area.” And I’m like, what about the, “what if I get on the orange line?”
[00:43:49] Jeb: Yeah.
[00:43:49] Ian: Like what if I.
[00:43:53] Jeb: Yeah, it’s just like these little, it just feels like it’s not quite as cohesive. And the other thing I’ll say, and this is just micro transit in general, ’cause I’m noticing that when I’m planning a trip to Toronto area as well, there are times where having micro as part of it, like a trip planner is really helpful.
And knowing that, and you really have to dig through the websites of basically any transit agency. Metro Transit currently included to figure out how to use Micro as part of your trip and even where Micro works and what are the hours and does it even work for your trip? Like to Metro Transit Credit, I believe I saw on their, on one of the upcoming meetings that they’re going to a new trip planner software that could incorporate Micro, at least into the Metro Transit website.
[00:44:42] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:43] Jeb: Um, I, that would be wonderful if they can. Have it be part of, at least the Metro Transit trip planner, like I can understand, like maybe the interoperability just can’t be there to put it as something that’s in like Google Maps or the Transit App or whatever. Yeah.
[00:45:01] Ian: That’s the ultimate goal would be like, yeah, we have an API that third party map programs can use.
That would be fantastic. Yeah.
[00:45:11] Jeb: Yes. But even just like. Being able to go on the Metro Transit website and being able to, so I wanted to go from downtown St. Paul to the Kowalski’s at Woodbury for whatever reason.
[00:45:24] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:25] Jeb: Or I have a book at more realistic example, I have a book at the Woodbury Central Library that just isn’t available anywhere else, and I wanna get that book.
It would be really nice to be able to show Gold Line. To Micro to get you there, rather than just saying, this trip is impossible. Or you’re gonna have to walk like a half hour to 45 minutes.
[00:45:42] Ian: Right, right, right. Yeah. And, and I mean like the, like that would help so much with discoverability for people who are visiting the Twin Cities, you know, who aren’t familiar like, ’cause whenever I visit a city, I don’t want to have to go and navigate five different apps to figure out how to get to where I’m going.
I just want to use the Transit App. And Yeah.
[00:46:05] Jeb: Yeah. And it just makes it the, and I think the, yeah, I think that’s the ultimate goal is to have it in those third party apps.
[00:46:12] Ian: Right.
[00:46:12] Jeb: Um, and I would say,
[00:46:14] Ian: I guess, I guess like a good, like middle ground would be, even if the Transit app can’t show me a, like, you know, a transfer and like, you know, give me, give me that as part of the trip.
It, you know, it can at least like show on the map. Like, Hey, by the way, this blob here. Yeah, like click on this to go to the Metro Micro, like, you know, page to learn more about how to use transit in that area.
[00:46:39] Jeb: Yeah, and I, I even just to start with, it would be wonderful to see Metro Transit, even just on their own trip planner, on their own website, have it integrated in so you can ’cause like.
I, I might check, like, like even if I’m busy enough, another time I’ll probably event, I’ll probably check out the website for that transit agency. Mm-hmm. And like, make a trip. Or if I’m like a local, but I’m doing a trip that like I don’t normally do, I might pop onto the Metro Transit website and just like see how I can get there.
Mm-hmm. And like the discoverability of like the trip planner showing me that this exists would be wonderful at, especially in the short to medium term, if it. The interoperability doesn’t exist to put it to third parties. Yep, yep.
So, but yeah, other than that, I would say it’s definitely been a major improvement in transit availability and accessibility to the things I want to be able to do.
And it’s basically made transit from a, like for my work commute is like a, a last resort if I really need to, to like, oh, this is an option. And like it’s not a big deal, especially in the afternoons to just like. Take transit home.
[00:47:49] Ian: Mm-hmm. Well, Jeb, you just waited until the end of the episode to give me like the, the good cold open, you know, the, the soundbite that everybody gets to use.
[00:48:01] Jeb: Well, I aim to please.
[00:48:04] Ian: Also, I can’t believe that I, um, ever doubted, uh, our ability to talk for 55 minutes about, about transit. Alright. Well Jeb, thank you for coming on the show. Was this, this was your first time on the Streets podcast, right?
[00:48:20] Jeb: I believe so, yeah. Yes. Maybe we’ve had a random clip from an event once or twice.
Sure, sure. But I’m not even sure if that, yeah, and mostly it was probably something, something in the background.
[00:48:31] Ian: Well, everybody, this has been Streets.mn Board member Jeb Rach. Uh, if you, if you like events, he’s the one who helps plan a lot of the events, so, you know.
[00:48:42] Jeb: And donate to Streets men. There you go.
I’m so, I’m obligated to say that.
[00:48:47] Ian: All right. Uh, thanks for, thanks for chatting with us, Jeb.
[00:48:51] Jeb: You’re welcome. Thank you.
[00:48:54] Ian: And thank you for joining us for this episode of The Streets.mn Podcast. The show is released under a creative commons attribution, non-commercial, non derivative license. So feel free to republish the episode as long as you are not altering it, and you are not profiting from it.
The music in this episode is by Eric Brandt in the Urban Hillbilly Quartet. This episode was hosted, edited, and transcribed by me, Ian R Buck. We’re always looking to feature new voices on the Streets.mn Podcast, so if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line at [[email protected]].
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